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Author Topic: Let's just discuss awesome JRPGs now  (Read 5862 times)

MrWiggles

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2012, 09:06:11 pm »

Fable series is a great jrpg. I highly recommend it.

J stands for Japanese...

Fable was made in Britian and thus is considered a western RPG.

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None of them are technically JRPG's, more like action RPG's.

I don't know... All the Star Oceans are considered JRPGs and they are action oriented.
Geographical location has no bearing on a genre. Western RPGs and JRPGs are different genres, fairly different genres. You play them for different reasons, for different experiences and you have different expectations from them. Its about why you play the game. Its Core Play Aesthetics, and Fables matches the core play aesthetics  to that of a jrpg then any other genre.
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TempAcc

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2012, 09:09:28 pm »

you do end up fighting god itself, in all his almighty cruelness.

Sorta...

Remember that these games are canonical to the Persona Series as well.

Not quite. Persona is a spin off from Shin Megami Tensei. While they have exactly the same theme and some characters remain the same (nyarlathothep, YHWH, lucifer, satan, some others), they don't follow the same storyline IE the hero from the first shin megami tensei never existed in persona, as far as I can tell. You could say persona is a slightly more tame version of the shin megami tensei series, which has sold very well in america and europe, while Shin Megami Tensei is only heard once in a while.

From TvTropes:

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The Shin Megami Tensei series has multiple spinoffs: the Persona series, the Devil Summoner series and Digital Devil Saga are the best-known in the US. Others include Majin Tensei, Last Bible, and Devil Children/Demi Kids. It also has an MMORPG called Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE. Despite being spinoffs, many include references to other Megaten games or feature character cameos. The games have been released outside Japan under the Shin Megami Tensei label since Nocturne, while in Japan only a handful of the games bear that name; the rest are unofficially known as MegaTen titles.

Shin Megami Tensei series games have only been marketed here since Nocturne's success on the PS2, but they have been kicking for as long as final fantasy and dragon quest in japan.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:12:12 pm by TempAcc »
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Neonivek

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2012, 09:12:59 pm »

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Geographical location has no bearing on a genre

You forget that Genres are often agreed upon definitions that sometimes are ENTIRELY unrelated to the content of the game.

JRPG and Western RPG are one of those. They refer to their country of origin irregardless of game and content.

A similar Genre of game? Independent

Independent games can be ANYTHING, their status as a independent game is based purely on the producer and developer.

Besides there could never be an agreed upon definition of JRPG because... what is a Japanese RPG if it isn't a game from Japan? Legend of Mana is just as important as Final Fantasy... Tales of Symphonia is just as important as Tactics Ogre/Ogre Battle

As far as Western RPGs go I'd almost challenge you to think of some classics outside the dungeons and dragons copies. The diversity of Western RPGs is just as grand from Ultima to albion to fallout to Elder scrolls.

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Fables matches the core play aesthetics  to that of a jrpg then any other genre

Actually it is pretty western. The Morality system, the way it tells its story, the aestetics (check how Japan does Europe and see)... The way the game flows and how the game handles its characters (especially the female ones... ESPECIALLY ITS FEMALE ONES!)

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Not quite. Persona is a spin off from Shin Megami Tensei. While they have exactly the same theme and some characters remain the same (nyarlathothep, YHWH, lucifer, satan, some others), they don't follow the same storyline IE the hero from the first shin megami tensei never existed in persona, as far as I can tell

For the most part most of the Shin Megami Tensei's take place after the Persona games (they have a timeline drawn and everything for it). The stories of each spin off and main game can be said to be unimportant to the story of another.

Even the Persona games are unimportant when related to eachother.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:18:18 pm by Neonivek »
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Singularity125

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2012, 09:21:04 pm »

-snip-

I was in here preparing to recommend a few games... and saw UV's post which contained all of them. Basically, "seconded to everything", but especially the Shin Megami Tensei series.

Same here... as soon as I read "Tactics RPG" in the OP I was all "OOH, OOH, DISGAEA". I have more to recommend from the same company though.

Have you looked at Phantom Brave, or Soul Nomad? They've got more of an injection of serious story than the main Disgaea series, and they have very unique game mechanics. (You can fuse people together in Phantom Brave, or items to people, or items to items...) Soul Nomad has a squad-based system, sort of. Up to nine individual units get shrunk to a single unit on the battlefield. Plus, Gig is just hilarious.

Of the two, Phantom Brave had a Wii remake/port, and is much much easier to find. You'd probably have to buy Soul Nomad online. The latter is highly recommended though, I just finished it yesterday. (As "finished" as you want to call finishing the main story in a Nippon Ichi game... okay, I'm rambling now) :D
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Enzo

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2012, 09:23:15 pm »

Tangent: I'm of the opinion that JRPG denotes a Japanese-style RPG rather than a Western-style RPG. Japanese style games have their roots in the early console RPGs, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc. Western RPGs have their roots in the early PC RPGS, Wizardry and Ultima and the like.

Quick Googlin demands I QUOTH WIKIPEDIA
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In the early 2000s, however, as the platform differences began to blur, computer RPGs and console RPGs were eventually classified as Western role-playing games (or WRPGs) and Japanese role-playing games (or JRPGs), respectively.[49]

Though sharing fundamental premises, Western RPGs tend to feature darker graphics, older characters, and a greater focus on roaming freedom, realism, and the underlying game mechanics (e.g. "rules-based" or "system-based"[49]); whereas Eastern RPGs tend to feature brighter, anime-like graphics, younger characters, faster-paced gameplay, and a greater focus on tightly-orchestrated, linear storylines with intricate plots (e.g. "action-based" or "story-based"[49]).[20][50][51][52][53][54][55] Further, Western RPGs are more likely to allow players to create and customize characters from scratch,[56]

Bastion, for instance, despite being a geographically western PC game, owes a lot more to Secret of Mana than it does to any classic Western/PC RPGs, so I would consider it within the JRPG blanket (although the argument could be made that it's more of a Zelda-like than an RPG, but that's not really the point).

Edit: I have not played Fable so I can't weigh in on that definitively, but I always thought it fell more closely towards Western RPGs.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:26:14 pm by kinseti »
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Neonivek

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2012, 09:28:23 pm »

Let me see... Strategy RPGS

Disgaea, Phantom Brave, La Pucile, Soul Nomad, Makai Kingdom... all Nippon

Then there is...

Tactics Ogre
Ogre Battles (big difference between the two)
Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced
Bahamut Lagoon

I know there are more but I have such bad memory...

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Western RPGs have their roots in the early PC RPGS, Wizardry and Ultima and the like

Then the Western RPG would be an outdated term. Since Ultima never caught on outside Ultima and Wizardry has been used for both W and J games.

Ultima's contribution to RPGs was to elevate it. Wizardry now that has had more of a "copying" effect.

I should just challenge the genre as a non-genre like I did the whole Indie Genre.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:42:56 pm by Neonivek »
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Microcline

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2012, 09:40:08 pm »

Have you tried Barkley, Shut Up and Jam Gaiden?
Final Fantasy Tactics/Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Have you played Xenogears?

1) Oh shit, that's right, that game. Moved to top of the list for being free and PC.
2) Played them both, pretty damn good.
3) I haven't, maybe I should?
If you liked Tactics, you might like Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, which is essentially Matsuno's proto-FFT.  Also, writing about it always makes me want to listen to Queen, which is awesome.  I'd say that FFTA2 is a decent game and a good time waster, although not nearly as good as it's predecessor due to having a cheating probability system and still being even more unbalanced.  I'd definitely recommend Xenogears, although I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wasn't familiar with JRPG bullshit.

Dragon Warrior VIII is also something you could look into, as it's generally considered to be the best modern straight implementation of the "classic" JRPG formula.  FFIX might also fit, but I can't recommend it as highly.

I'd say that as far as the "numbers-going-up" subgenre goes, I'd recommend Rune Factory 3 over NIS' stuff.  RF3's ARPG battles are faster and there's more variety than in Disgaea's menu grinding.  It's also that while both games contain copious amounts of anime bullshit, RF3 is of the "wholesome anime bullshit" variety rather than Disgaea's "sleazy anime bullshit".
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Neonivek

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2012, 09:43:44 pm »

There is also Front Mission 1-4 (I like 3 more then 4... but I own 4)
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MrWiggles

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2012, 09:43:51 pm »

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Geographical location has no bearing on a genre

You forget that Genres are often agreed upon definitions that sometimes are ENTIRELY unrelated to the content of the game.

JRPG and Western RPG are one of those. They refer to their country of origin irregardless of game and content.

A similar Genre of game? Independent

Independent games can be ANYTHING, their status as a independent game is based purely on the producer and developer.
Independent isn't a genre, its a production and financing means. It is not a game play aesthetics. And you are right, it can be any genre, because it has no bearing on its genre.



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Besides there could never be an agreed upon definition of JRPG because... what is a Japanese RPG if it isn't a game from Japan? Legend of Mana is just as important as Final Fantasy... Tales of Symphonia is just as important as Tactics Ogre/Ogre Battle

As far as Western RPGs go I'd almost challenge you to think of some classics outside the dungeons and dragons copies. The diversity of Western RPGs is just as grand from Ultima to albion to fallout to Elder scrolls.
The core play aesthetics are two things for jrpgs.
When you're trying to figure out the core play aesthetics there are two questions you can ask:
Is BLANK an element of the game?
And more importantly, you ask: Is BLANK the reason why I play the game?

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Fables matches the core play aesthetics  to that of a jrpg then any other genre

Actually it is pretty western. The Morality system, the way it tells its story, the aestetics (check how Japan does Europe and see)... The way the game flows and how the game handles its characters (especially the female ones... ESPECIALLY ITS FEMALE ONES!)
How it tells it story, isn't why you play the game, its the games influences. The morality system isn't why you play fable. (and You in this case isn you personally, but a broad more general you).
The core play aesthetics for a jrpg : Narrative (being the primary reason why you play it). You (this you is personal), aren't the main character, but you the player, are more like a director and voyeur keeping in on their lives and directing their actions. Whereas with a Western RPG, the main character is you, and decide the story, and its order. While Narrative can be a strong reason to play a western RPG, its not its Core, its foremost core game aesthetics. Western RPG core play aesthetics is escapism and expression. Its about immersion of the player into the role and world and letting them define who they are in said world, going as silly as adjusting brow height. But its more to that, such as character class selection, or making your gear set to conform to your play style. That too is a form of expression. And while these elements can be found in JRPG, again, I must stress, they are not why you play JRPGs.

Much in the same way, we ID Fallout as a western RPG, but not a FPS even though you spend a great amount of time in first person, shooting things.  Or why Black Ops is a first person shooter, but not a RPG, even though it has a leveling system in multiplayer.

To put it more simply JRPG tell you a story, where as a western RPG place you in a story. While similar, but they arent fairly different way to convey a game to the player, and their fairly different reason why to play the game.


Fable has expression as a high level game play aesthetics but its main one is narrative. It tells you a story vs. placing you in one.

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Neonivek

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2012, 09:52:52 pm »

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Independent isn't a genre

It is a genre now just like Indie music.

you may disagree with me but unfortunately it is the way the world works... Stupidly.

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How it tells it story, isn't why you play the game

Style... it is sort of important... some games are sold purely not on its content but how it presents it...

Ok normally I'd go more on this... but we need at least a baseline here and since you never heard of the indie genre and you don't know of any of the concepts I am using or the implications of them... It is pointless. I might as well talk in "Blah" for all the good this conversation will do us. It is one thing to disagree it is another to just not understand.
-Edit addition: This is outdated but I'll leave it there. I will admit I was overly frustrated when I wrote this.

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You (this you is personal), aren't the main character, but you the player, are more like a director and voyeur keeping in on their lives and directing their actions. Whereas with a Western RPG, the main character is you, and decide the story, and its order

Mind you I can at least get something out before I go. Legend of Mana, Dark Cloud, Dark Souls, Monster Hunter entirely makes your statement incorrect. Wizardry Also makes you incorrect. You make statements that are not encapsulated in Japanese RPGs and Western RPGs... You are spouting the differences between games like Elder Scrolls Vs. Final Fantasy. They arn't the genre.

The J and the W if they mean anything it is in their story telling and style. Not in their set ups. Sandboxes indeed tend to be part of the Western RPG genre but they are hardly a cornerstone element. Especially since Western and Japanese RPGs don't have to be opposites because they are Genres.

heck J and W RPGs cannot be Genres because they arn't a genre in it of themselves and they cannot be a subgenre because their status doesn't change the gameplay. J and W if they are a true genre are a Sub SUB genre.

---

Go play Magic Pengel

Is that a RPG?

-Edit addition: YEAH... I kinda went insane on this post... I'll leave it here because I think the forum can take me ranting like a jerk for one post... but I appologise for the way it is written. I really should stay off the internet when I am in this bad a mood.

 Also once again Magic Pengel is great and is one of those games you have to play at least once whether or not you know it is going to be any good.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 10:09:22 pm by Neonivek »
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freeformschooler

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2012, 12:27:11 am »

I had a Disgaea/NIS thread here a while ago... hm. Anyway, first Disgaea is the best way to start, and I'd recommend "whatever system you have available" since it's for PS2, PSP and DS. DS version has the most content, but PSP version has multiplayer.
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Flying Carcass

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2012, 12:47:57 am »

Each Disgaea game's story is mostly self-contained, with a few character cameos here and there, so story-wise you can play them in any order.

Disgaea 1 is available for PS2, PSP, and DS.
Disgaea 2 is available for PS2 and PSP.
Disgaea 3 is available for PS3 and PS Vita.
Disgaea 4 is available for PS3.

I've played the first two and enjoyed them both.
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Hawkfrost

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2012, 12:48:39 am »

On topic: Where does one find Disgaea titles, and where should one start? I've had an eye on them for a while, but no idea where to dive in.

Start with the first, it has the best story and characters and is a good introduction to the series as a whole.
I haven't played 2 or 4 yet, but from the third I can tell you they changed a fair amount of how the game plays over the course of the series while still keeping to the core concepts.
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Seriyu

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #58 on: July 04, 2012, 03:15:16 am »

Backing all that up, and as a note, the post game content is pretty much a grindfest. If you don't enjoy that, feel free to just skip the post game stuff, none of it is amazingly plot relevant. Before the post game content though, it's all pretty universally awesome.

Neonivek

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Re: Recommend me a JRPG thread (Please!)
« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2012, 03:21:39 am »

Backing all that up, and as a note, the post game content is pretty much a grindfest. If you don't enjoy that, feel free to just skip the post game stuff, none of it is amazingly plot relevant. Before the post game content though, it's all pretty universally awesome.

Of the Post Game Content... one ONE thing from each game tends to be Canonical and it is the Baal fight.
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