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[Leafsnail]

NativeForeigner.

Leafsnail:  I'm heavily distracted by other online activites- blame the RTD subforum in particular.

Not convinced.  This post suggests that you were reading the thread fairly closely, and it doesn't seem rushed or short.  You could've posted substantial content in the time taken to write it.  Why didn't you?

Even though the question had been quoted right above his answer, in the very previous post to yours? Also, how would him choosing a nonvoting role reflect on his alignment?

The question was quoted, but I often skim over quotes as I've already read the text.  In this case I misremembered what the question was.  I'll once again stress that this mistaken impression only ruins my joke slightly and does not affect the main body of my accusation: that NativeForeigner is being useless and using his role as an excuse to be useless.

Choosing a nonvoting role does not reflect on his alignment.  I was just making a comment about him being useless and how funny it was that he was explaining how his role allowed him to be useless at the same time.

[NativeForeigner]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. Are you under the impression that I chose a voteless role intentionally? I didn't mention anything of the sort, so it's rather strange that you bring it up.

I was under a slightly mistaken impression that changes nothing of relevance (that you were being useless and were using your votelessness as an excuse for being useless).

Where was I using my votelessness as an excuse for anything?

You did have the chance to do useful things - you made some 6 posts.  You just didn't actually do anything useful in reality before the clearly stated end of day.  That is the problem.

The last sentence is the most hilariously unconvincing LOOK AT ME I'M SCUMHUNTING I've ever seen.  It doesn't remotely flow from the rest of your post.  I love the way you suddenly spring into action when and only when accused, though (and then only to make passive aggressive swipes at the person who called you out for being useless).

And probably three of those were PFPs. I'm well aware that I didn't do anything useful before the end of the day, I admitted that.

Well when you supplement your argument against me by attacking my choice of role (which, as UI pointed out, has nothing to do with my actual alignment) I've gotta question your motives. Flow isn't exactly my top concern when making a post. The way you try to discredit me immediately after I call you out on something, even passively, raises red flags.

I want to see Toaster's reaction first.  Questions can wait until after then.

What were you hoping to gain from Toaster's reaction that adding a question would have hurt? What did you actually gain?

Toaster: Of course.

Who's you're second scumpick?

Book: I'm aware. Working on fixing that. Toaster's reading town to me and I'm not sure what to think of Tiruin. Why those two in particular? Why Tiruin over UI?

[Leafsnail]

Where was I using my votelessness as an excuse for anything?

You posted quite a few lovely contentless posts about your lack of vote including some posts to prove you had no vote.  In other words, looking like you were doing something while in fact just pissing around due to having no vote.  In other words, using your votelessness as an excuse for being useless.

And probably three of those were PFPs. I'm well aware that I didn't do anything useful before the end of the day, I admitted that.

Ok, let's say three of them were PFPs.  How about the other three?  Why didn't you do anything in spite of

No questions right now, I just found out I was playing and only had a few minutes to post. So I'll get something more substantial out within 24 hours.

Ok, the day ended 22 hours after that post.  Shouldn't your next post in day 2 have been bursting with the content that was cruelly cut off by the end of the last day?  Rather than another non-post?  Heck, you still haven't done anything today except take a couple of lazy swipes at the guy voting you.

Well when you supplement your argument against me by attacking my choice of role (which, as UI pointed out, has nothing to do with my actual alignment) I've gotta question your motives.

It.  Affects.  Nothing.  About.  My.  Main.  Argument.  You can either respond to that point or waste more time repeating that irrelevancy.

Flow isn't exactly my top concern when making a post. The way you try to discredit me immediately after I call you out on something, even passively, raises red flags.

Pot and kettle pot and kettle pot and kettle.  Seriously, you're speaking as someone who's done nothing today except make terrible attempts to discredit the person voting you.  In any case, the sentence was a nonsequiter - a weird passive swipe.  I will attack people if they do things like that.

What were you hoping to gain from Toaster's reaction that adding a question would have hurt? What did you actually gain?

I have gained a contradiction from Toaster.  If I had fired the question first and showed my hand I wouldn't have his own excuse to hit him with now.  But please either explain how seeking this contradiction makes me mafia or leave this discussion of strategy until after the game.

[Toaster]

Leafsnail:

Leafsnail:  I'm heavily distracted by other online activites- blame the RTD subforum in particular.

Not convinced.  This post suggests that you were reading the thread fairly closely, and it doesn't seem rushed or short.  You could've posted substantial content in the time taken to write it.  Why didn't you?

That post is a reading of new posts since my last one and mostly responses to things generally directed at me, not an in-depth analysis.  Such analysis would have taken time I didn't have to give to the game.


Native:  Hm.  I don't have other solid leads, so I'd have to ask my gut, and he says you or Book.  I don't have anything to substantiate those suspicions right now, so it's not worth a lot.

Who's your second scum pick?  Hell, who's your first?  You haven't "voted" anyone- there's a reason to suspect you.

[Tiruin]

PFP As I've messed up my time schedule. Will be back in ~6 hours.

Leafsnail

Ugh, White Goo.  Whoever selected White Goo should be shot.  Webadict: Does the White Goo work like it does in #mafia, where everybody will flip the same role as the person who is White Goo?  Or is it "they flip their actual role with White Goo added on"?

What do you see wrong with White Goo? Round ends when the KM is killed.

Tiruin:

UI

Hmmm... So Native's voteless and the vote's tied... Hapah.

Why Hapah over NF?

Please justify your vote for Imiknorris. Do you think he's scum? Why?

Book:  Why Hapah over UI?

To avoid a tie.

So why not now?

Partly because he's not the only scummy one, but mostly because you voted him first, without justification, and then tried to goad me into following suit. Since we are at three-to-hammer, if I voted him now I'd place him at L-1, and the day is too young to allow a hammer, well intentioned or not. But your incitement to have it happen, with a vote without justification, is suspicious on its own. Please answer these:

You voted UI throughout D1, also without justification beyond "why the loaded question?" Did you think he was scum D1? Why? What did you do about it? Also: who else do you think is scummy? What do you think of Leaf's pressure on Native?

Firstly:

False Recurring Nightmare Retired Wolf Hunter [Recurring Nightmare]
I can make someone deader than fucking dead at any time (bwahahaha). I can revive once. I was once a proud werewolf hunter, but now I just want to live out my retirement in peace. I have no abilities because web is an asshole (shocking, I know). Can't eradicate, can't revive.

He claimed early with a role that was supposed to do something, and says that it doesn't do anything at all. Aka: Named Vanilla role that may mess up other claims.

My aim wasn't to goad you at all, just to question you on your vote stance. I voted UI on D1 to check on his intentions and how he decided to throw his questions, with his on me being a loaded one from my perspective. Then the day ended before I could get back in and re-check my findings.

Anyway, you forgot to answer the first question line.

As I said, it was barely serious. I recall you being scum in a disproportionately high number of games, and figured it was as good a way as any to pick an RVS vote.

Also: who else do you think is scummy?

^ Oh hold for later on.

What do you think of Leaf's pressure on Native?

Leaf is getting as much answers from NF, and it's giving much to think about in his role.

If I missed anymore questions, excuse that for later on please.
NF

You admit that you picked your role so you wouldn't have to do anything.  And then claim that you are in fact doing something!  Golden.

Day 1 did indeed end before you got anything useful done (not on a hammer though).  That is the problem.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. Are you under the impression that I chose a voteless role intentionally? I didn't mention anything of the sort, so it's rather strange that you bring it up. I also mentioned that I didn't get the chance to do anything useful, so I really don't know why you're saying that I claimed otherwise. Can't think of a more convincing mislynch?

I was under the impression that it ended with Book's hammer.

Did you choose voteless intentionally? And why if so?

How did you conclude the bolded reason and why are you thinking about the lynch so early?

[NativeForeigner]

Toaster: Fair enough.

My first scumpick would have to be Leaf. Quite frankly, his argument against me is shit and it reeks of scum going for a mislynch.

I don't have a solid second pick, but my gut says Tiruin or Book. But my gut almost always says Book, so that doesn't count for much.

Tiruin: I did not choose voteless.

He appeared to be using my supposed choice in roles to make it seem like I was scummy, said that I claimed to be doing something when I made no such claim (I admit when I'm not doing as much as I should be), and he's going after someone who hasn't done much and is therefore a low-risk target. Scum tend to go for lurkers, active or otherwise, when they need an easy mislynch and it seems to me that that's what Leafsnail is doing.

Leafsnail:

You posted quite a few lovely contentless posts about your lack of vote including some posts to prove you had no vote.  In other words, looking like you were doing something while in fact just pissing around due to having no vote.  In other words, using your votelessness as an excuse for being useless.

I'll ask once more. Where am I actively using my votelessness as an excuse of any sort? Confirming my votelessness but having no content is very different from citing my votelessness as the reason for my lack of content.

And probably three of those were PFPs. I'm well aware that I didn't do anything useful before the end of the day, I admitted that.

Ok, let's say three of them were PFPs.  How about the other three?  Why didn't you do anything in spite of

No questions right now, I just found out I was playing and only had a few minutes to post. So I'll get something more substantial out within 24 hours.

Ok, the day ended 22 hours after that post.  Shouldn't your next post in day 2 have been bursting with the content that was cruelly cut off by the end of the last day?  Rather than another non-post?  Heck, you still haven't done anything today except take a couple of lazy swipes at the guy voting you.

First post of the day was PFP with something I noticed about the votecount which actually didn't get answered. After that, I decided to focus on you.

You're only really worth those lazy swipes right now.

Well when you supplement your argument against me by attacking my choice of role (which, as UI pointed out, has nothing to do with my actual alignment) I've gotta question your motives.

It.  Affects.  Nothing.  About.  My.  Main.  Argument.  You can either respond to that point or waste more time repeating that irrelevancy.

Your main argument is shit. Satisfied? All you're doing is going after the least-active player. I don't think I've ever seen that win a game.

Pot and kettle pot and kettle pot and kettle.  Seriously, you're speaking as someone who's done nothing today except make terrible attempts to discredit the person voting you.  In any case, the sentence was a nonsequiter - a weird passive swipe.  I will attack people if they do things like that.

Big difference between what you're doing and what I'm doing. What you did was attempt to discredit me because of the way I introduced my observations, not the observations themselves. I'm discrediting your observations, not the way you brought them up. You want to lynch me because I haven't been particularly useful yet, not because I'm scummy.

I have gained a contradiction from Toaster.  If I had fired the question first and showed my hand I wouldn't have his own excuse to hit him with now.  But please either explain how seeking this contradiction makes me mafia or leave this discussion of strategy until after the game.

A weak contradiction at best. More could have been gained with a question, but this has little to do with scumhunting at this point, so I'll drop it.

PFP

[Urist Imiknorris]

Toaster:

UI:  That was referring to more D1 content that was coming, before I realized that there had been a hammer.  The first post was a quick one knocked out to have something out there before a real meaty post came.

Ah, something to provide the illusion of activity in the absence of actual activity. Again, were you going to post anything other than an attack on Hapah? I am very interested in exactly what this hammer-interrupted content was.

Native:

Toaster: Fair enough.

My first scumpick would have to be Leaf. Quite frankly, his argument against me is shit and it reeks of scum going for a mislynch.

I don't have a solid second pick, but my gut says Tiruin or Book. But my gut almost always says Book, so that doesn't count for much.

Why don't you have a solid second pick?

Scum tend to go for lurkers, active or otherwise, when they need an easy mislynch and it seems to me that that's what Leafsnail is doing.

So scum's trying to mislynch poor pitiful you, eh? You want sympathy, and you won't get it.

I'll ask once more. Where am I actively using my votelessness as an excuse of any sort? Confirming my votelessness but having no content is very different from citing my votelessness as the reason for my lack of content.

You are moving the goalposts. He already pointed out the part where you said that as a voteless King Mafia you wouldn't really have to do anything. And that you aren't doing anything. Who in their right mind would say "I can't vote so I'm not going to do anything" anyway?

After that, I decided to focus on you.

You're only really worth those lazy swipes right now.

No, if he's your main target he's worth your full aggression, if only because you aren't attacking anyone else.

Tiruin:

He claimed early with a role that was supposed to do something, and says that it doesn't do anything at all. Aka: Named Vanilla role that may mess up other claims.

How would that mess up other claims?

You also never justified your vote on me today. In addition, why haven't you been attacking me? All told, your vote feels rather lazy.


And now, the reward for confirming unclear parts of one's role PM:

Would anyone object if I eradicate NativeForeigner? Because I'm starting to find his attitude rather odd, and hitting anyone else makes today MyLo at best.

[Urist Imiknorris]

EBWOP: Also unvote.

[NativeForeigner]

Native:
Why don't you have a solid second pick?

Because no one else os notably likely scum at the moment.

Scum tend to go for lurkers, active or otherwise, when they need an easy mislynch and it seems to me that that's what Leafsnail is doing.

So scum's trying to mislynch poor pitiful you, eh? You want sympathy, and you won't get it.

I didn't ask for sympathy. Judging from your wording, you think Leafsnail is scum. Otherwise you would have said "Leafsnail" instead of scum. Or maybe I'm just reading too into that, it's pretty late. Regardless, have anything useful to say about it? I'm interested in hearing your opinions on those that attack relatively inactive players instead of employing effective scum hunting tactics.

You are moving the goalposts. He already pointed out the part where you said that as a voteless King Mafia you wouldn't really have to do anything. And that you aren't doing anything. Who in their right mind would say "I can't vote so I'm not going to do anything" anyway?

I said that there wouldn't be much pressure on me. It goes without saying that no matter the state of my vote I'm expected to do something. What Leafsnail is trying to say is that I'm using my lack of a vote as an excuse for not doing much, something I haven't done.

No, if he's your main target he's worth your full aggression, if only because you aren't attacking anyone else.

I suppose. But really when someone attacks me with crap arguments I find it difficult to take them seriously. Probably not the best attitude, but I've almost always picked up when it started to matter.

And now, the reward for confirming unclear parts of one's role PM:

Would anyone object if I eradicate NativeForeigner? Because I'm starting to find his attitude rather odd, and hitting anyone else makes today MyLo at best.

Wait, I thought you didn't actually have any of those abilities? Also, what about my attitude is rather odd?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Because no one else os notably likely scum at the moment.

Wrong answer. The correct answer is that you haven't been questioning anyone else. Do you expect scumtells to just fall in your lap? One would think that voteless town would be busy trying to find scum and convince other people to vote them.

I didn't ask for sympathy. Judging from your wording, you think Leafsnail is scum. Otherwise you would have said "Leafsnail" instead of scum. Or maybe I'm just reading too into that, it's pretty late. Regardless, have anything useful to say about it? I'm interested in hearing your opinions on those that attack relatively inactive players instead of employing effective scum hunting tactics.

I was copying your wording. And you don't have to ask for sympathy to try to garner sympathy - you could do what you're doing and paint yourself as an innocent victim of a mislynch-craved scum.

Wait, I thought you didn't actually have any of those abilities? Also, what about my attitude is rather odd?

I noticed an oddity in my role PM that I had overlooked: It said I have no abilities, but my eradicate was still listed as an ability. Questioning webadict revealed that the "False" modifier only applies to my revive. Like I said, the reward for confirming unclear parts of my role PM.

As for what I find odd about your attitude: You don't seem to actually care about finding scum at all, your attention is directed near-exclusively at getting Leafsnail to stop attacking you, and the strength of your suspicion of him is seemingly at odds with the strength of your case against him (as in, he's your number one scumpick for attacking your content which you've admitted is lackluster).

[NativeForeigner]

Because no one else os notably likely scum at the moment.

Wrong answer. The correct answer is that you haven't been questioning anyone else. Do you expect scumtells to just fall in your lap? One would think that voteless town would be busy trying to find scum and convince other people to vote them.

I tend to go tunnel mode (at least as far as questions are concerned) when I feel I've found scum. I'm just finding a lack of motivation to push the lynch for some odd reason. I'm trying to figure that one out. Might be my gut telling me I'm wrong, so when I get more time I'm going to take a closer look at things to see if that's it.

I was copying your wording. And you don't have to ask for sympathy to try to garner sympathy - you could do what you're doing and paint yourself as an innocent victim of a mislynch-craved scum.

Then you misinterpreted what I was saying. I would hardly consider myself a victim at this point in time. If that changes, I'd sure do a hell of a lot more than whine about it.

I noticed an oddity in my role PM that I had overlooked: It said I have no abilities, but my eradicate was still listed as an ability. Questioning webadict revealed that the "False" modifier only applies to my revive. Like I said, the reward for confirming unclear parts of my role PM.

As for what I find odd about your attitude: You don't seem to actually care about finding scum at all, your attention is directed near-exclusively at getting Leafsnail to stop attacking you, and the strength of your suspicion of him is seemingly at odds with the strength of your case against him (as in, he's your number one scumpick for attacking your content which you've admitted is lackluster).

Ah, good.

Oh, I do, but as I said, I'm having difficulty finding the motivation to push the lynch and I'm trying to find the source of that. I know that's weak, but it is what it is. I'll reassess why I think Leafsnail is scum after I'm done traveling tomorrow. That should clear things up for me. I think I might know the reason, but I'm not entirely sure.

[NativeForeigner]

EBWOP: Urist: Why would you want to use your one-shot on me instead of trying to get me lynched?

[Bookthras]

Moderator: votecount requested, and please confirm if these assumptions are correct: it's three to hammer, there are no extensions, day ends approximately 16 hours from the time of this post.


Imiknorris:

Leafsnail:

Please justify your vote for Leafsnail.

You turned your random vote into a lynch vote with absolutely no justification. This makes you scummy.

And when did I say it was a lynch vote?

You didn't say it was a lynch vote, but any vote that's standing there two hours before day end is in effect a lynch vote. You can't say it wasn't just because you shifted it less than two hours before day end.

Would anyone object if I eradicate NativeForeigner? Because I'm starting to find his attitude rather odd, and hitting anyone else makes today MyLo at best.

Ah, you did have that alternate kill after all, didn't you? Interesting! I happen to be in favour of the idea of getting rid of NF (see below), but do tell, why do you propose to off NativeForeigner instead of Leafsnail, your vote target?


NativeForeigner:

Native: [...]What's your read on Toaster and Tiruin? Please ask each a question.

Book: [...]Why those two in particular? Why Tiruin over UI?

Why do you ask "why Tiruin over IU" instead of "why Toaster over UI"  (or indeed any two others)? I can't ask you to ask everyone else a question (though I'd like it if you did), so I asked for two. And yet you failed: where are your questions for Toaster, Tiruin, or indeed UI?


Tiruin remains scummy for his attempt at manipulating hammer votes. NativeForeigner, on the other hand, has grown increasingly evasive, defensive, and failed at working with questions (on both ends). UI is scummy in his actions, but has responded questions adequately; on the other hand, his revelation regarding his kill is very interesting. What are you claiming, "I didn't understand my role PM" or "wuba told me I had a kill I didn't know"? That's very iffy.


I'm very suspicious of Imiknorris's newly found kill. I'm really tempted to hammer the crap out of him right now. On the other hand, Native and Tiruin are pretty scummy...

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
Urist Imiknorris - Tiruin, Toaster,
Leafsnail -
Tiruin - Bookthras,
Toaster -
Bookthras -
NativeForeigner - Leafsnail,

Not Voting - NativeForeigner, Urist Imiknorris,

3 To Hammer. Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

It is now Day.
[/quote]

[NativeForeigner]

Imiknorris:

Leafsnail:

Please justify your vote for Leafsnail.

Urist has unvoted since then.

NativeForeigner:
Why do you ask "why Tiruin over IU" instead of "why Toaster over UI"  (or indeed any two others)? I can't ask you to ask everyone else a question (though I'd like it if you did), so I asked for two. And yet you failed: where are your questions for Toaster, Tiruin, or indeed UI?

Because you FoSed UI and voted Tiruin, not Toaster (this was in reference to who you were FoSing and voting, not who you were asking me to question, I should have made that more clear). I did ask Toaster a question. It wasn't a fantastic question, but it was. I couldn't think of a proper question to ask Tiruin at the time, so I didn't. No point in asking pointless questions D2, in my opinion, so I'm not going to ask one just to please you.

Imiknorris: Another thing: what caused you to unvote Leafsnail?