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Author Topic: Heroes of Might and Magic III - Still the best TBS since sliced bread (tourney?)  (Read 18232 times)

Seriyu

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Or the old one. Or try this browser game base on V. And with ' based on'  I mean all units are the same but have different names.

I can vouch for this as a cheapo that doesn't have the money to buy things. It's not the most amazing thing, but it's a good way to kill some time every now and then.

ZebioLizard2

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Has anyone ever actually built a decent fortress town in D3? I always thought they were either underpowered, or I just never played them right.
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3

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Fortress has strengths and weaknesses, much like Inferno. Dragon Flies are amazing (weakness on everything), Gorgons are the ultimate equaliser, and Hydra damage potential is insane (although, like Behemoths, I wouldn't siege with them unless you have some way of getting them in fast). The other creatures aren't that great. Although I'm terrible at this game what do I know

That said, what are people's general approach to economy management? Do you rush for units for map control? Rush for units for a head start in growth? Push econ? Split your units up and take lots of mines at once? Ice Fisher?
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ZebioLizard2

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Generally depends on map size, for below medium I generally prefer the one hero approach with an upgraded town hall before going with additional unit structures over upgrades.

Medium and above I will go for more economic based structures with a two hero approach. It doesn't hurt Dungeon to split ranged stacks up so dealing with the neutrals is a bit easier on them at least.
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Errol

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Fortress is the stonewall faction, which leads to their obvious disadvantages, but being annoyingly hard to go down is also nice and gives them advantages when defending castles, for example. Their ranged power is predictably bad, though, tankiness is kind of a dump stat for ranged attackers, and their mage guild only goes to third level, too - kind of a shame, spells could really add to their attrition - but as it stands, Fortress needs to engage in melee.
A lot of their units apply debuffs and they can be quite useful. They can also get their Tier 6 unit very early in the game, and of course Mighty Gorgons are spectacular.

There are better factions for sure, but Fortress can work with the cards it is dealt.

Also, while rushing an early high tier building is great for your start - Stronghold with fast rocs (and Behemoths!), Fortress with Day 2 Wyverns, are there any others? - I still like economy rush more, getting to Capitol ASAP or at least Town Hall -> bunch of creature generators. After a capitol rush, I usually get a lot of unupgraded creature generators, building key upgrades for certain units - Sharpshooters, Harpy Hags, Great Elfs, the Tier 1 guys sometimes when I have a lot of them. Then filling in.
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3

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The problem I have with econ first strategies is that you start off with a reasonably large amount of gold anyway - certainly enough for you to go straight to a city hall on week 2 after getting most of your dwellings. Not being able to afford to recruit everything isn't much of a problem so long as you have a general idea as to what you're up against and focus on getting only what you need; you're stockpiling creatures anyway, so there's nothing stopping you from being able to catch up later. If you get a bunch of gold first then dwellings, not only do you have less map control and therefore less access to items and resources, but you also don't have any immediate way of spending it (because you're essentially a week behind on population).

The only situation I can think of where I'd prefer early city hall/capitol is if my main hero has some trump card that can win the early game (ballistics I meant artillery, a specialist spell, etc.) and I want to powerlevel them via chests. In most other situations just having more/better creatures is more important.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 07:37:33 pm by 3 »
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Daki

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Fortress has strengths and weaknesses, much like Inferno. Dragon Flies are amazing (weakness on everything), Gorgons are the ultimate equaliser, and Hydra damage potential is insane (although, like Behemoths, I wouldn't siege with them unless you have some way of getting them in fast). The other creatures aren't that great. Although I'm terrible at this game what do I know

That said, what are people's general approach to economy management? Do you rush for units for map control? Rush for units for a head start in growth? Push econ? Split your units up and take lots of mines at once? Ice Fisher?
I love Fortress,even though it's among the weaker factions - the gorgon is easily among the top 3 tier5 units,and the double-moat gives more shots to your ranged units and towers.Screw Inferno, worst town in the game for sure. Castle's where it's at.
As for strategy-you gotta adapt to the map size. You won't have the time to rush a capitol(sometimes not even a city hall) on small maps, and what's the point in building all your creature generators on large maps? I almost always go for a balanced approach,rushing to tier4 units before focusing on economy, which means that the AI will have tier6/7 units listed as their strongest unit,and me with a meager tier5.
Also,be careful with your town choice on unknown maps. Once I picked Tower,and my section of the map was 100% rough terrain. ALL OF IT.
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Korbac

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I love Fortress,even though it's among the weaker factions - the gorgon is easily among the top 3 tier5 units,and the double-moat gives more shots to your ranged units and towers.Screw Inferno, worst town in the game for sure. Castle's where it's at.

You don't like Cerberi? Efreet Sultans? Arch Devils?

I will say Castle is arguably the most powerful town, either that or Dungeon. Inferno isn't great (potentially 6th in the pecking order), but it's got to be better than Fortress.
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RedKing

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I'm partial to Forest myself. Stacks and stacks of upgraded elves FTW. Especially with Treants to keep units out of the elves' faces.

I still have my CD of this, I should reinstall.

I also have HoMM V, which was pretty but slow. Had some good parts (skills, as people have mentioned) but overall was less than impressed. And I think I even have my HoMM I and II discs around here somewhere.
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Xeron

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Actually nope.The best town in HoMM3 is the Necropolis.Just start out with a necromancy specialised hero,and attack only enemies you can kill easily.I got to over 9000 skeletons ,which owned quite a lot of stacks of arch angels,arch devils and the likes.(Also no 9000 pun intended)
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Daki

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I love Fortress,even though it's among the weaker factions - the gorgon is easily among the top 3 tier5 units,and the double-moat gives more shots to your ranged units and towers.Screw Inferno, worst town in the game for sure. Castle's where it's at.

You don't like Cerberi? Efreet Sultans? Arch Devils?

I will say Castle is arguably the most powerful town, either that or Dungeon. Inferno isn't great (potentially 6th in the pecking order), but it's got to be better than Fortress.
Cerberi are one of the high points of Inferno. While familiars are among the fastest tier1 units,they are squishy and their special is almost useless;gogs and magogs are pitiful for the only ranged unit they have,devils and efreet only shine when upgraded...which goes double for all other Inferno units. Most rankings place Inferno last, with Fortress(gorgons,dragonflies) and Stronghold(goddamn ancient behemoths) ahead.
The strongest towns are Conflux(4 phoenixes per week) and Necropolis(do I have to say it?) - no wonder they're banned in most tournaments.

I'm partial to Forest myself. Stacks and stacks of upgraded elves FTW. Especially with Treants to keep units out of the elves' faces.
Dendroids are a unit I both love and hate - I love their high HP and root special,but I HATE their 4 speed(this goes for double for dwarves).
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3

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As for strategy-you gotta adapt to the map size. You won't have the time to rush a capitol(sometimes not even a city hall) on small maps, and what's the point in building all your creature generators on large maps?

I agree that map size is a defining part of strategy, but the exponential factor of gold income in this game isn't that big. In fact, I'd say that getting more dwellings early is even more important on large maps, because the ultimate limiting factor is creature growth - no matter how much or little gold you have, creature growth remains constant, and having more dwellings early gives you an edge when it comes to non-constants (control of external dwellings, bonuses on week/month, artifacts...).

I dunno about Conflux. Phoenix growth is amazing but the rest of the creatures aren't that standout, not to mention expensive. What'd you do versus a fully-upgraded Dungeon player with Implosion or Chain Lightning or whatever? Can't he just blow up your main stacks, and then the rest of your army won't be able to compete?
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Xeron

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Tournament anyone ?
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Dutchling

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YES.

And with tournament, you mean like everybody playing a match versus everybody? Or at least, until you lose a match.
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Daki

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As for strategy-you gotta adapt to the map size. You won't have the time to rush a capitol(sometimes not even a city hall) on small maps, and what's the point in building all your creature generators on large maps?

I agree that map size is a defining part of strategy, but the exponential factor of gold income in this game isn't that big. In fact, I'd say that getting more dwellings early is even more important on large maps, because the ultimate limiting factor is creature growth - no matter how much or little gold you have, creature growth remains constant, and having more dwellings early gives you an edge when it comes to non-constants (control of external dwellings, bonuses on week/month, artifacts...).
On large maps(especially XL maps),you won't bump into other players for quite some time,giving you more freedom in developing your towns. While it's true that in the early stages of the game,you'll have plenty of gold to buy creatures(I only played against the AI,and with a handicap,so I'm not sure just how much you start with), in the middle and later stages, gold becomes the sole limiting factor in army size. That's why you don't let a Rampart player sit on his 2-3 treasuries for a month.
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I dunno about Conflux. Phoenix growth is amazing but the rest of the creatures aren't that standout, not to mention expensive. What'd you do versus a fully-upgraded Dungeon player with Implosion or Chain Lightning or whatever? Can't he just blow up your main stacks, and then the rest of your army won't be able to compete?
Phoenix growth is more than enough to put it way ahead,but here you go:phoenixes are also the swiftest creatures in the game,allowing you that coveted 1st turn advantage over your opponent. Pixies and magic elementals allow no retaliation(very,very painful,especially coming from magic elementals),earth and fire elementals are decent,I'd say water and air elementals are not as good,but they have a high(7-8) damage potential - cast bless,and they suddenly don't seem so weak!
Conflux heroes are not the best,but the Magic University allows anyone to get Earth/Air magic(not to mention their Grail structure).
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