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[Bookthras]

Hapah:

Book: Isn't your case on borno essentially "reaction to Toaster" and "I don't think your browser really ate your posts" ?

Yes, but it was also a reaction test (had he panicked about it, for instance, it'd be telling), and was not a bandwagon vote. You, on the other hand, jump onto Toony's bandwagon without even asking him a question, and unlike me, you call Dariush's case "reasonable", without bothering to make your own.

Sure, a tie at the end of day would be bad, but there's plenty of time to break it; sure, we don't know much on D1, but you're not just shooting from the hip, you're bandwagoning on what seems the easiest lynch at the time. Scummy.


Borno:

I was talking about the same post.

Hm. Reasonable.

You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?

Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.

False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?

Anyway, who would you think is the most scummy person right now, except for me?

Your attempt at deflection is noted. But it's a fair question: Hapah is climbing; his bandwagon vote looks pretty bad to my eyes. I haven't yet decided which of Toony/Dariush/Tiruin is scummier, the whole situation seems farcical and ridiculous. Obolisk's lurking is irritating me as well; the cybrid laying low all D1 letting others battle it out seems like a good noobscum strategy to make sure he makes it to night.

[GlyphGryph]

Yes, I do need to use the preview button more.
Mod: My vote is currently on toaster.

I went back through and couldn't spot one. You should consider re-voting for the next count (there's no penalty to revoting someone. Even unvoting doesn't mean anything unless you want to be explicitly voting for no one. I simply go by the last vote you make.)

Obolisk has been prodded, as requested.

[zombie urist]

Unvote

zombie urist: The VK test is designed to test people's reactions. It's a reaction test, if you will. I try to mix things up with my RVS questions.

But... how are you going to do that eye checking thing through the internet?

UI

UI: If you were an imperial, what would be your strategy to differentiate rebels from cybrids?

Recognize that any distinctions I make have a good chance of being wrong, and so not bother differentiating between them at all.

But for a Rebel, a D1 Cybrid lynch wouldn't be good - it would be an almost-certain D1 Imperial win.

How do you reconcile these 2 posts?

[Urist Imiknorris]

There is nothing to reconcile.

[Toaster]

Book:

Toaster:
Why does it trouble you if I'm voting Dariush?

It doesn't; your lack of response to him does, though.  You vote him, ask him a question, he answers it, and you say nothing more to him, moving your vote over without so much of a mention of him.  Why?


Borno:

Toaster:

Borno:  Who do you suspect and why?  I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.

You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
Did you think that I would fall for that question because I am fairly new to Mafia? Plus, you even wouldn't answer the question when I asked it back at you.
And yeah, I realised too late that my post was broken.

Your inexperience is why you got the question and not someone else.  I did respond to it- by blowing it off, which is pretty much what you did as well.  It's the best response to the question, which is why I didn't press you further.


Dariush:  I'd argue you're attacking him simply because you like attacking him, in the same sense that you were always after NUKE when he played.  You don't react well to differences in style, rather than actual scumminess.


Hapah:

And, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.

This is incredibly lazy.  D1 and low post count are absolutely not an excuse to parrot someone else blatantly and hop mindlessly on the bandwagon.  I want original content from you, and soon.

This post doesn't make you look better.

[borno]

Bookthras:

You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?

Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.

False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?

Sorry, by miss it I meant forgot it. I remembered to answer the question the first time, but forgot the second. And it isn't necessarily the most scummy, but just the most scummy thing I've seen. Why do I have to repeat myself to you all the time, Bookthras?

Mod: Toaster.

[Tiruin]

TIRUIN

Coherent and reasonable in your eyes. From where I see it, you're throwing implications into my face and one-sided questions. Just reading this thread and ignoring it won't help my cause at all.
Scumhunting, bro. You can't win if you ignore everything.
Hm, about that vote.
Pressure.
Does that add up? It looks like it does, and it looks like it's working perfectly. And nice work on noticing those votes, shocking how mine sticks to you now. Putting an 'always' fits the case.

Woah you got me man.  Voting me because you always vote me, genius.

Also did you just say you can't ignore the thread because you need to scum hunt?  That...I was accusing you of ignoring the thread!  Can you please answer if you actually willingly ignored the thread or not, clearly.

Firstly, what? I am not, nor do I ever ignore any Mafia games I am in. I do not ignore this thread. Period. You were accusing me in the past tense, you say? No. You asked a question that was off tangent before, and are now accusing me based on me not answering a stupid question such as that.

Secondly, who insinuated that I was ignoring this thread? You. It's pretty obvious that lack of activity never wins games, scum or town. Let me round the question to you - are you being dense, putting up reasons like those to look active?

Thirdly, "Voting me because you always vote me, genius." > "I vote you because I always do". Right. That is...a really stupid reason to put out. I don't vote people just because I did in the past games. Actually, I do vote people, but that is when I find them scummy. Pressure, generally, then vote stick.

What does that have to do with the current situation by the way? Why has my vote made such an impact on you?

You question me before answering my question, and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote!  You're playing scummy Tiruin and it's not bullshit reasons like using exclamation marks.

Oh how astute of you, good sir. I answered your question. You're pretty much trying to prove facts without tangible evidence on me. Does my formatting make me scummy? Would it make better sense if I moved that single sentence below a declarative sentence to make it feel better, like I'm doing right now? Did I ever accuse you of formatting for being scum, like those exclamation points?

...and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote!

I know what a rhetorical question is, and asking a player if he ignores a Mafia game is one in my eyes. I'm not stupid, Toony. Don't try to ever implicate me on reasons of not planning to answer questions like those. Mostly all your posts on me are disconnected in their logic, and if I'm wrong there, point it out for me because I want to see how you view it.

Also,

Toony:

Yeah, what I'm saying is you build up a cache to distance yourself from what attacking players on you are even trying to accomplish.  It's like blocking a question instead of evading it.

Would you kindly elaborate on exactly what the fuck this means, preferably in small words? I'm feeling stupid this evening and can't figure out what you're saying.

They respond to the question directly with their own questions, not even answering what the initial person asked.  They're not evading because the topic is still the same but I can't say they're answering it either.

Who in the world is this 'they'?

Think

Tiruin: ...He's saying that you hadn't read the thread, because you weren't posting (not even unusually not posting, just you hadn't posted yet). Then you disagree. Then he asks if you read the thread and not post. Then you disagree. What is it? There are times where you aren't posting. What are you doing in those times?

Looking at his posts on me, I see it as trying to build a case on what he assumes is true from my viewpoint. There are obviously times when I'm not posting, and I'm doing everything else at that time - ranging from Real Life, Literature work, RTD study, Creative Writing, Graphite Sketching, Medical Studies, Chemistry work and taking care of my family to list a few. I can't be online all the time, obviously, but you and everyone else who is viewing this have my word that if I enter a Mafia game, I stick to it until I cannot post no longer - i.e. death or game end.

On why I disagree: I look for what catches my eye as scummy. Did you see the basis of his 'read and post' ideology?

Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?  I would be making him too bad a player otherwise.

Tiruin hasn't even read (or at least hasn't replied) to me yet Dariush you twit.  For him presently he doesn't even know what the situation is right now beyond his first few posts.  He has made no attempt to target me since he plans to target everybody!

The case is completely atrocious in the fact that Toony is operating on presumed ignorance than actual scumhunting. He even puts meta in the mix to implicate me.

On that note, Toony: Where did you derive your conclusion in the last sentence of the last quote before this one?

Hapah

And, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.

Did you just lay down a vote here without pressing the case, borrowing from what Dariush says and not trying to go with your own words or...give anything for him to say? If there is a lack of things to go on, why aren't you questioning?

borno

Toaster:

Borno:  Who do you suspect and why?  I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.

You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.

For Xmas, Santa is bringing you a mirror. And really, that is the most scummy thing? Seems to me you are keeping your vote on whoever has pressured you the most.

The most scummy thing I've seen. I don't have enough time for mafia in weekdays, but I'll probably have time to re-read the thread now that its the weekends.

Why is Toaster's question the most scummy thing you've ever seen, and why aren't you pushing your cause on him to fortify your vote?

And...where is your answer to

Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that

I'll get to that once I've re-read the thread.

[borno]

OK, finished re-reading the thread. Unvote:

Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that?

I thought that Hapah's posts looks like no effort was put into them, and that they were just made to un-even votes against himself. Tiruin doesn't seem to be too scummy in my eyes. Toony's response was justified, as it is RVS, and Dariush's response can be justified in the same way.

Where is your answer to

Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that

I'll get to that once I've re-read the thread.

Right here.

[Dariush]

Dariush: It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's completely hypothetical.

But, how come I'd be there?

I think it does matter.  It shows that you have a personal grudge with me and aren't voting me for logical reasons.

Wrong. I outlined my case yesterday. You ignored it completely and continued pushing your 'GAAAAAH DARIUSH HATES ME, IGNORE HIM EVERYONE11!!!!11'.

Clear evidence to that would be myself flipping town and scum randomly on you.

The fuck? Blackmailing the town already?

So you are saying Tiruin acted scummy?  And I don't find using an exclamation point shouting because that's the only reason you can vote me and you're an idiot.  Hah!

...Wow, you're even more stupid than I thought. No, I'm not saying Tiruin acted scummy. Don't put words in my mouth. No, shouting isn't the only reason I'm voting for you. How can you be so stupid? Stop being so stupid, you stupid.

So, your post added the following points to my case, in addition to all the previous:
- Blackmailing the town with your 'gaaaah I'll flip town honeeeest';
- Putting words in my mouth about Tiruin;
- Completely ignoring everything I accused you of earlier;
- Lying that my only point has been about you shouting. Which actually contradicts your earlier 'I'm only voting you because I hate you' argument.

Dariush:  I'd argue you're attacking him simply because you like attacking him, in the same sense that you were always after NUKE when he played.  You don't react well to differences in style, rather than actual scumminess.

Wrong. I outlined my case yesterday. You ignored it completely...

Waaaait a miiiinute. Why are you defending Toony using his own arguments?

[Hapah]

Apologies for the distraction I caused. I didn't get the outcome I wanted, but it was still informative.

I made myself out to look a fool with my last couple of posts intentionally. The ideal response would have been someone nailing me to the wall once I made myself an easy target; this would strongly suggest (to me, anyway) that either Dar or Toony was a Cybrid, as I would have been the perfect scapegoat/distraction to get their ally off the hook. Being able to point at a group of three and say "two are probably Cybrid" would have been DAMN nice, but I didn't get that "guns blazing" sort of response that I was hoping for. Still, there is information to be gathered from how people responded:

Spoiler: Response Analysis (click to show/hide)

Bookthras: His response is probably the gold standard. Not only am I rebuked for my lazy vote and reasoning, but he actually details why it's lazy, suspicious, and half-baked. I also like the fact that he doesn't drop his original suspicions to go after me. Based on the fact that he's less interested in seeing me hang and more interested in me coming up with legitimate votes, I suspect that Book is non-Cybrid.

Toaster: See Bookthras, except slightly less corrective and slightly more accusatory. Still, the same hallmarks are there. Probably non-Cybrid.

Tiruin: As above, but something feels a little off.

borno: No discussion, no suggestions, just the vote on me when I was drowning in FoS's. Did you think the moment was right to get a bandwagon on me rolling?

Toony and Dariush have both made substantial posts since I started acting a fool. I didn't really expect Dariush to address it (would you correct someone that was voting with you?), but the fact that Toony stayed above the fray instead of giving me hell confused me a bit. It wasn't the reaction I was expecting, that's for sure.

Think made a long post since then, but it was just answering questions, really. ZU made a quick post, but seeing how it's the weekend it's entirely possible he quickly skimmed the thread and missed my flashing neon sign.

And finally, I thought UI was alignment-fishing a lot, but upon re-read I only found two explicit instances.

Unvote.

I'll sit down and sift through this Dar/Toony/Tiruin thing later today, though I'm not looking forward to it: I suspect reading it will be kinda like hearing nails on a chalkboard.

More later!

[ToonyMan]

I'll sit down and sift through this Dar/Toony/Tiruin thing later today, though I'm not looking forward to it: I suspect reading it will be kinda like hearing nails on a chalkboard.

I can assure you it's not that fun.

Firstly, what? I am not, nor do I ever ignore any Mafia games I am in. I do not ignore this thread. Period. You were accusing me in the past tense, you say? No. You asked a question that was off tangent before, and are now accusing me based on me not answering a stupid question such as that.

Fine.  I wanted a clear "I am not ignoring the thread" response.

Secondly, who insinuated that I was ignoring this thread? You. It's pretty obvious that lack of activity never wins games, scum or town. Let me round the question to you - are you being dense, putting up reasons like those to look active?

What happened was Dariush claimed I 'slipped' by saying "Tiruin hasn't read the thread yet" and I refuted by saying "If Tiruin hasn't posted then he hasn't read the thread".  Of course you reacted completely incomprehensible to that and only instilled more confusion in me.

Thirdly, "Voting me because you always vote me, genius." > "I vote you because I always do". Right. That is...a really stupid reason to put out. I don't vote people just because I did in the past games. Actually, I do vote people, but that is when I find them scummy. Pressure, generally, then vote stick.

I expected as much.  You first vote them for 'pressure' and then you just let your vote stay.  That of course wouldn't include any actual even somewhat logical evidence.

What does that have to do with the current situation by the way? Why has my vote made such an impact on you?

The crime of insignificance.

You question me before answering my question, and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote!  You're playing scummy Tiruin and it's not bullshit reasons like using exclamation marks.

Oh how astute of you, good sir. I answered your question. You're pretty much trying to prove facts without tangible evidence on me. Does my formatting make me scummy? Would it make better sense if I moved that single sentence below a declarative sentence to make it feel better, like I'm doing right now? Did I ever accuse you of formatting for being scum, like those exclamation points?

Nope.  That was Dariush I was talking to in that quote.  Not sure why you answered that except to try to confuse matters, again.

...and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote!

I know what a rhetorical question is, and asking a player if he ignores a Mafia game is one in my eyes. I'm not stupid, Toony. Don't try to ever implicate me on reasons of not planning to answer questions like those. Mostly all your posts on me are disconnected in their logic, and if I'm wrong there, point it out for me because I want to see how you view it.

Can you finally tell me this:

Toony:  What kind of Cybrid are you this time?

I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.

The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?

Have you ever heard of a loaded question?  I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid!  Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question.  It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.

Please please explain to me how I could have answered that question.  I didn't mean just the first sentence with the actual question mark, that's my fault.  But at least the passage I want is bolded by me now.

Yeah, what I'm saying is you build up a cache to distance yourself from what attacking players on you are even trying to accomplish.  It's like blocking a question instead of evading it.

Would you kindly elaborate on exactly what the fuck this means, preferably in small words? I'm feeling stupid this evening and can't figure out what you're saying.

They respond to the question directly with their own questions, not even answering what the initial person asked.  They're not evading because the topic is still the same but I can't say they're answering it either.

Who in the world is this 'they'?

You or any incriminating party.

Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?  I would be making him too bad a player otherwise.

Tiruin hasn't even read (or at least hasn't replied) to me yet Dariush you twit.  For him presently he doesn't even know what the situation is right now beyond his first few posts.  He has made no attempt to target me since he plans to target everybody!

On that note, Toony: Where did you derive your conclusion in the last sentence of the last quote before this one?

Do you mean "I would be making him too bad a player otherwise."?

I would consider a player would reads this thread and has nothing to say scummy.  Of course there are exceptions like not many new posts but as I said that wouldn't be a case here.  I never thought you were ignoring the thread Tiruin I just wanted to question you about it which led to probably half of this?

I think it does matter.  It shows that you have a personal grudge with me and aren't voting me for logical reasons.

Wrong. I outlined my case yesterday. You ignored it completely and continued pushing your 'GAAAAAH DARIUSH HATES ME, IGNORE HIM EVERYONE11!!!!11'.

You mean the case I ignored for being stupid?  Oops.  You could have written all those four or so points as "Dariush hates Toony" anyway, begrudger.

Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?

First, that's wrong. Second, way to ignore my question about shouting for the second post in a row.

So you are saying Tiruin acted scummy?  And I don't find using an exclamation point shouting because that's the only reason you can vote me and you're an idiot.  Hah![/quote]
...Wow, you're even more stupid than I thought. No, I'm not saying Tiruin acted scummy. Don't put words in my mouth. No, shouting isn't the only reason I'm voting for you. How can you be so stupid? Stop being so stupid, you stupid.[/quote]
You left out your beautiful quote Dariush!  (I added it in).

"Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?" - Toony
"First, that's wrong." - Dariush

Explanations people.  I didn't have much to go on so of course I would take the aggressive and suggest Tiruin could be ignoring the thread.  Telling somebody they're wrong is pretty useless without explanations why!  Of course you turned the matter into the case of shouting...so so stupid as they say.

- Blackmailing the town with your 'gaaaah I'll flip town honeeeest';

That was for past games.  It was evidence for this game, dumb dumb~

- Putting words in my mouth about Tiruin;

Not explaining anything they say.

- Completely ignoring everything I accused you of earlier;

The "Dariush hates Toony" stuff?  We all know that!

- Lying that my only point has been about you shouting. Which actually contradicts your earlier 'I'm only voting you because I hate you' argument.

Huh?  This is either illogical or completely trivial, I can't tell.



Holy hell, let's see what else...

MOD Vote Count

Urist Imik

There is nothing to reconcile.

"Has absolutely nothing to say."

[ToonyMan]

I screwed up the second Dariush quote.  I didn't see it in the preview.  It's not bad enough to repost fixed...

[Tiruin]

Can you finally tell me this:

Toony:  What kind of Cybrid are you this time?

I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.

The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?

Have you ever heard of a loaded question?  I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid!  Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question.  It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.

Please please explain to me how I could have answered that question.  I didn't mean just the first sentence with the actual question mark, that's my fault.  But at least the passage I want is bolded by me now.

That was mostly an RVS-Reaction testing question on how you'd respond to that as basically, this was my first thing to you.

Hapah: You missed this,

Hapah

And, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.

Did you just lay down a vote here without pressing the case, borrowing from what Dariush says and not trying to go with your own words or...give anything for him to say? If there is a lack of things to go on, why aren't you questioning?

PFP

[Bookthras]

Toaster:

Why does it trouble you if I'm voting Dariush?

It doesn't; your lack of response to him does, though.  You vote him, ask him a question, he answers it, and you say nothing more to him, moving your vote over without so much of a mention of him.  Why?

Because he answered the question to my satisfaction, and I didn't have a follow up to make. I seldom acknowledge or unvote just for the sake of it unless there's a follow up point or question to make or day end is near.


Borno:

You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?

Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.

False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?

Sorry, by miss it I meant forgot it. I remembered to answer the question the first time, but forgot the second.

Still false. The first time you didn't remember to answer, you remembered to decline to answer. The second time you didn't forget, you answered it. You never forgot it, you never missed it.

You still haven't answered the why of it: why did you loudly object to answering it the first time, while casually and effortlessly answering it the second time, as if there was nothing wrong with it? This inconsistency is really scummy. And why do you lie about it, twice in a row now?


Hapah:

I made myself out to look a fool with my last couple of posts intentionally.

Maybe. Or maybe you were caught in a scummy act, and your predictable scummy reaction was to backpedal fast, and claim "uh, I meant to do that! it was a trap for the scums!" as justification. I don't quite buy it.


Zombie, Imiknorris: Please give me your read of Toaster, Hapah, and each other, and ask each of those a question.

[borno]

Bookthras:

Borno:

You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?

Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.

False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?

Sorry, by miss it I meant forgot it. I remembered to answer the question the first time, but forgot the second.

Still false. The first time you didn't remember to answer, you remembered to decline to answer. The second time you didn't forget, you answered it. You never forgot it, you never missed it.

You still haven't answered the why of it: why did you loudly object to answering it the first time, while casually and effortlessly answering it the second time, as if there was nothing wrong with it? This inconsistency is really scummy. And why do you lie about it, twice in a row now?

Oops. By first time, I must of meant second time. But why are you saying that a simple mistake was a lie? Couldn't you see it was an accident?
Anyway, I objected to answer what my preferred role in the alignment, because it was fishing for my alignment, as toaster later agreed. I, however, forgot to answer the 'Happy of your alignment?' part on my second revision of the deleted post.
Anyway, more coming after school.