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[blackmagechill]

I meant suspicious of other people, that was minor screw-up in phrasing on my part. If you were town, you wouldn't have much to fear in questioning, now would you? After all, you wouldn't have anything to hide, and thus wouldn't have any reason to fear. This is beginner's mafia. The scum are beginners too, and, probably aren't experienced enough in RVS to try too hard to appear as town. It'd be rare to find a scum player working that hard to look town in beginner's.

[Teneb]

If you were town, you wouldn't have much to fear in questioning, now would you? After all, you wouldn't have anything to hide, and thus wouldn't have any reason to fear.

Deathsword: What do you find to be the most suspicious in D1? Why?

I am unsure wheter or not I understand the question, but assuming it's behaviour (spelling?) you are referring to, fallacies would be somewhat suspicious, especially ones where the accused can't defend himself (assuming him, not going to do all that he/she/it stuff) without looking somewhat guilty.

[Teneb]

Damn it. I wanted to underline that, not cross that part.

[blackmagechill]

I'm sorry I'm not well schooled on my fallacies. Maybe I'll do some research when I become an internet politician. Which particular fallacy would you be referring to here (Strawman is what it looks like I guess)? I'm trying to say that your fears would be unfounded if you were town.

[Teneb]

I'm sorry I'm not well schooled on my fallacies. Maybe I'll do some research when I become an internet politician. Which particular fallacy would you be referring to here (Strawman is what it looks like I guess)? I'm trying to say that your fears would be unfounded if you were town.

I'm referring to Burden of Guilt

[blackmagechill]

You might not have any way to prove my claim, sure, but my claim isn't even really a claim. It's just suspicion and the fact that "hey, that kind of seems weird that you would do that". I haven't voted or even accused you (despite what it might've looked like) I've just expressed a bit of suspicion, Deathsword.

[Flying Dice]

Of course, townies should be more concerned with hunting scum than with defending themselves.


blackmagechill:

You might not have any way to prove my claim, sure, but my claim isn't even really a claim. It's just suspicion and the fact that "hey, that kind of seems weird that you would do that". I haven't voted or even accused you (despite what it might've looked like) I've just expressed a bit of suspicion, Deathsword.

blackmagechill: Who are your initial guesses as potential scum? Why?

Deathsword stuck out to me because he seems to have fewer questions, and what looks like less suspicions.

All I'm saying is, and, granted this is RVS which really doesn't matter, you weren't throwing around as many questions as everyone else, and it seemed like you had relaxed suspicions. Now, maybe it's just me, but if someone isn't suspicious in a game of mafia, then that person probably knows more than everyone else.

Sounds to me like you're trying to backtrack on what you said earlier. You claimed that Deathsword was notable to you because they weren't voicing a bunch of suspicions in the very first posts of the RVS. If you don't feel very strongly about this, why did you drop a FoS?

Deathsword: This is RVS; baseless suspicion is going to be the norm until people start getting real evidence to work with. If we needed proof of guilt before we started scumhunting, the scum would beat us every time.

How do you feel about being FoSed so early?

Theodolus, IronyOwl, and Chaos Armor: All three of you are online, but none of you have even made an opening post for the RVS yet. Have you not noticed that the game has started, or are you trying to sit back and sideline, letting newtownies target each other instead of you?

[blackmagechill]

Because I've been suspicious of him the whole time, and I'm starting to really be suspicious, mostly because he was saying it's a claim that he's scum, which it isn't by any stretch, and I get irritated as fuck when people bring fallacies into anything, because it usually becomes their only defense after a while. Theoldus did make an RVS post, btw. It was right after mine.

Flying Dice: If you had a power role with a reusable ability, would you activate every time you had the chance, or only when you thought it would be particularly important?

[Flying Dice]

Yes, my mistake on Theodolus; I didn't scan carefully enough.

__


In this setup, if I had a power role, I would use it every chance I got, because none of them have downsides. Or at least, downsides that aren't related to late-game WIFOM, in the case of the Cop.

[IronyOwl]

Right then.

When in doubt, flail uselessly. Or just ask an IC what you should be doing, but impotent flailing is still better than impotent sitting. Activity is paramount to catching scum, and also to looking like town and getting townies mislynched. If you're not active, you can sometimes slide by as scum, but not well. You simply cannot win as town.

So, as many of you have noticed, we begin the game with RVS, or Random Vote Stage. This is a stage of useless flailing, with two purposes in mind. The primary one is to get something to genuinely talk about, but the second is to get a less specific read on players. Thus, while RVS questions should always be game-related in some way, they can sometimes be more esoteric or currently irrelevant than more normal questioning.


So, onto specifics.

blackmagechill:

RVS Time!
TolyK: Any ideas as to who would be scum?
Theoldus: How many games of mafia have you played before?
borno: Can you beat your post record from BYOP mafia this time?

What, no vote during the random vote stage? What's the point of that question to TolyK?

More generally, I'm not getting a very useful vibe from any of this; it feels like going through the motions. You ask TolyK what suspicions he has before there's anything to be suspicious of, Theodolus how experienced he is in a somewhat roundabout way, and borno if he's going to lurk and then drop out again. Where were you hoping to get conversation and reads from with this?

Deathsword stuck out to me because he seems to have fewer questions, and what looks like less suspicions.

All I'm saying is, and, granted this is RVS which really doesn't matter, you weren't throwing around as many questions as everyone else, and it seemed like you had relaxed suspicions. Now, maybe it's just me, but if someone isn't suspicious in a game of mafia, then that person probably knows more than everyone else.

Does anyone have any suspicions at this point?


Theodolus:

BMC: What do you think you most need to improve on in mafia games?
FlyingDice: Given a choice would you rather play scum or town?
IronyOwl: What is the most important thing for a mafia player to remember?

Odd that you've got the best RVS questions so far. You ask one player what his primary playing weakness is, one player what an aspect of their preferred playstyle is, and one what they feel is most important to either players or scum players in general. Though, you should probably bold to catch people's attention.

So, where'd you come up with these questions, having never played before?


To answer your question to me, I'm not sure if you mean mafia as in person playing mafia or scum.

If it's the former, I'd say "activity is key" is the most important thing to remember. It can be easy to slide into not doing stuff for various reasons (you already "know" who's scum, other people are doing things for you, you're busy, you don't really suspect anyone, etc), but if you don't do stuff, you lose.

If it's the latter, that's much tougher. You could certainly make a case for the exact same thing- being active very much helps you look town. That said, I'm not sure if that's the most important thing or not. "Don't get greedy" is another contender, since scumtells are usually scum being lazy and/or greedy.


Deathsword:

So, RVS, here I go...

Chaos Armor: Since you weren't mentioned by those above, what kind of role do you enjoy most?

You also look like you're just going through the motions (and should probably bold, possibly vote). This is a good question, but why is it all alone?

Of course, your statement could also be a lie should you be mafia (at least the one where you claim you are town), but I'm not going to go on this due to no evidence at all. At least not for now.

This looks pretty useless. You point out the obvious, claim you're not going to push him over it because there's nothing there, then imply you might push him over it later. Why mention it at all just so you can glare at him uselessly and imply he'll have to answer for it later? Are you trying to pressure him, mentioning things you find suspicious, or something else?

I went with him because he wasn't questioned by you, in fact I could say it's suspicious you only mentioned 3 players. I don't expect this to be a compelling argument, but it's still what I am going to say.

This is even worse, being both weaker and hypocritical. What's so suspicious about only mentioning 3 players, and why is it both not a compelling argument but something you're going to say? And why, if only mentioning 3 players is suspicious, did you only mention one? Are you intentionally trying to draw suspicion to yourself or something?

Let's assume that I am scum for a moment, wouldn't I try to act non-supiciously? Wouldn't I have asked more question in order to pass as town, throwing random guesses at nearly everyone? From what I know, a scum player would try as hard as they could to look like town, perhaps a bit too hard?

Well then clearly you're town. Except then scum would know that and do exactly this to look town. Hm.

So no, WIFOM is not a good defense against scumminess or for towniness. If you've got some specific reason why asking more questions means someone's scum or fewer questions means someone's town, let's hear them, but vague hypotheticals dependent on a very precise manner of scum thinking is useless to the point of being suspicious.

What if my single question was a result of paranoia, of fear that someone might use such questions against me, not unlike you are doing now?

Then you're playing like shit and going to be lynched anyway.

"I'm terrified of fallacies" is not even a remotely valid reason to not do anything, offensively or defensively. If you can't open your mouth without someone using a logical fallacy to lynch you, you're going to die anyway and you're not going to accomplish anything in the interim anyway, so you might as well get it over with. The game's also not likely to work so well in that case, which means you'd be in good company.


Flying Dice:

blackmagechill: Who are your initial guesses as potential scum? Why?
Deathsword: What do you find to be the most suspicious in D1? Why?
Shakerag: What do you think the greatest town mistake in BMXXXIII was? Why?

What's the point of these questions? Two of them are based on something that probably hasn't had enough time to meaningfully happen yet, one's very vague and based on a prior game.

Theodolus, IronyOwl, and Chaos Armor: All three of you are online, but none of you have even made an opening post for the RVS yet. Have you not noticed that the game has started, or are you trying to sit back and sideline, letting newtownies target each other instead of you?

I'm doing other things, of course.

[Chaos Armor]

So, RVS, here I go...

Chaos Armor: Since you weren't mentioned by those above, what kind of role do you enjoy most?

I wouldn't know. Considering this is my first(1/2) Mafia game. But if I had to choose a role I would pick cop. The reason I would is that I would be able to investigate who I thought suspicious. That is undoubtedly useful.


Fiskav: If you were a cop who would you investigate? The cleanest looking player or the scummiest looking player?
borno: If you were a doctor who would you save? The cleanest looking player or the scummiest looking player?

blackmagechill:

Because I've been suspicious of him the whole time, and I'm starting to really be suspicious, mostly because he was saying it's a claim that he's scum, which it isn't by any stretch, and I get irritated as fuck when people bring fallacies into anything, because it usually becomes their only defense after a while. Theoldus did make an RVS post, btw. It was right after mine.

You say you've been suspicious of him the entire game. How is this possible? You started attacking him for his first post(A perfectly fine post for a BM) and the reason, because he only asked one question. I fail to see how this is scummy. And if you thought him suspicious why didn't you vote him in the first place?

Flying Dice:

Theodolus, IronyOwl, and Chaos Armor: All three of you are online, but none of you have even made an opening post for the RVS yet. Have you not noticed that the game has started, or are you trying to sit back and sideline, letting newtownies target each other instead of you?

I've noticed and have been compiling my post but I've also been taking care of important business on The Last Knights (MMORTS).

[Chaos Armor]

EBWOP:

I forgot to put blackmagechill's name in red.

[Teneb]

In my defence, considering the points IronyOwl brought up:

I didn't really know wheter or not asking a lot of questions in my first post would be a good thing or not, so I decided to stick with just one question.

When blackmagechill decided to declare himself supicious of my post, I decided to see what I could get out of him by making some wild (by my standards, at least) assumptions.

Going to FoS blackmagechill due to what I said above.

[Teneb]

I'd also like to say that I'm not going to pot more today. I'll answer anything that comes up tomorrow when I wake up.

[Teneb]

Post, not pot. I miss the edit button already.