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[My Name is Immaterial]

They also have Sorcerer specific lists, especially in dragon-themed books.

[flabort]

I had more been thinking of trying to convince a GM to allow a sorcerer to take a spell that was on the Cleric list, citing thematic reasons and twisting that rule as far as it will go.   

[Chiefwaffles]

Alright! Developed the mercenary group thing a bit more, and it spun into its own thing!

Mercenary Coalition (Name Pending)
In this (sci-fi/space opera) game, 4+ players join with their own characters as part as a mercenary group. It works in a x-com style. In the "base" "phase", everyone votes on things for the group as a whole to do. Upgrade facilities, maybe do research, buy large things, etc.
At the end of each base phase, players vote on a mission from a list. After that, a squad of a certain amount of people depending on the mission is chosen, they're briefed and given time to come up with a plan, then are set out in the "tactical" "phase", which will either be completely text-oriented, or some kind of tile/map based system. Probably the former.
After completing the mission, each participating player gets some personal money that they can spend on equipment for later use, and the group as a whole gets money for overall use.

A "twist" is that you can buy and use spaceships in your missions. Anywhere from troop carriers to fighters to frigates to capital ships. However, each ship has to have a pilot/Captain. Captains are independent of the regular squadmembers, and are chosen for missions separately. They usually have their own "flagship" that only they fly, and the 'communal' ships that all captains can fly. Captains are based off of a waitlist/player signing up when needed. (as in, Captains are "recruited" as needed, and kept in roster)
Without ships, the squad won't have as many tactical options. With ships, they can receive fire support, get picked up and dropped off as needed, etc..
Players not selected for a mission can crew ships with Captains for some kind of bonus - increased abilities, most likely.

The ship/captain part seems like it looks complicating, but here's a summary: Your group has spaceships. Spaceships need a player to sign up just to fly spaceships. Spaceships help a lot in missions.
You also buy new spaceships with communal funds.

In short:
XCom-like sci-fi/space opera with 4-∞ players. In the "group phase"/whatever, people vote for things the group as a whole should do - base expansions, R&D, large item purchases (like spaceships), etc.
After group phase, people vote on a mission. A select number of people are selected, briefed, and come up with a plan, then execute the mission. After execution, the group as a whole gets money and each participating squadmember gets money.
However, spaceships bought by the group are piloted by individual players who don't otherwise participate in tactical combat.

Thouughts?

[ATHATH]

AFAIK, they use the following mechanics. I've bolded the casting relevant parts.

A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below).
To learn or cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Sorcerer. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.
A sorcerer’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.
Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered sorcerer level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the sorcerer “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level sorcerer spell the sorcerer can cast. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast.

I was sure that there were monsters that had Cleric SLA's that were cast as a Sorceror of their level.

[Dermonster]

Hey guys. In case anyone cared, Dexexe (The guy wot made all those fancy adventures with pictures in) moved off Bay12 and set up shop over on Sufficient Velocity.

I say this because I got a PM asking about him recently and I thought I'd spread the news around a little, I guess.

[IronyOwl]

From the SRD:

Guardian nagas cast spells as 9th-level sorcerers, and can also cast spells from the cleric list and from the Good and Law domains. The cleric spells and domain spells are considered arcane spells for a guardian naga, meaning that the creature does not need a divine focus to cast them.

So in the absence of other information, "casts as a sorcerer" tends to imply spontaneity, sorcerer spells-per-day, Cha-based saves and bonus spells, and access to the sorcerer spell list. There's nothing preventing tampering with that last bit, though, especially when it comes to SLAs.

That said, I don't recall how spellstitching works exactly, so I couldn't swear on the details there.

Captains are independent of the regular squadmembers, and are chosen for missions separately. They usually have their own "flagship" that only they fly, and the 'communal' ships that all captains can fly.
Without ships, the squad won't have as many tactical options. With ships, they can receive fire support, get picked up and dropped off as needed, etc..
Players not selected for a mission can crew ships with Captains for some kind of bonus - increased abilities, most likely.

What's the point of splitting off ships into an entirely separate thing? Why not just include a piloting stat or set of stats, and let players jump into or out of a cockpit as the situation warrants?

Hey guys. In case anyone cared, Dexexe (The guy wot made all those fancy adventures with pictures in) moved off Bay12 and set up shop over on Sufficient Velocity.

I say this because I got a PM asking about him recently and I thought I'd spread the news around a little, I guess.

How's he doing?

[Chiefwaffles]

stuff

What's the point of splitting off ships into an entirely separate thing? Why not just include a piloting stat or set of stats, and let players jump into or out of a cockpit as the situation warrants?

Good point. I was intending to go for a cool "separate gameplay experiences; same game" type thing, but it does seem easier to let anyone skilled enough jump into the cockpit as well as have the ability to designate someone to stay in the cockpit before a mission.

[escaped lurker]

Mercenary Coalition

In short:
XCom-like sci-fi/space opera with 4-∞ players. In the "group phase"/whatever, people vote for things the group as a whole should do - base expansions, R&D, large item purchases (like spaceships), etc.
After group phase, people vote on a mission. A select number of people are selected, briefed, and come up with a plan, then execute the mission. After execution, the group as a whole gets money and each participating squadmember gets money.
However, spaceships bought by the group are piloted by individual players who don't otherwise participate in tactical combat.

Thouughts?

In essence, a mix of suggestion game & coop-play, right?
As I see it, the "missions" will easily take a week, if not longer. It is somewhat doubtfull, that the "suggestors" will be all that interested in sticking around for the space-battle of the "Merc's", though your "waitlist captain" mechanic, may just be what could encourage them do so.

Either way, I would strongly suggest, that the suggestors get "something to do" in those battles, besides waiting for their possible enlistment. One idea, would be to give them some ships that they can direct - while that may "lessen" the impact of the IC-players, knowing bay12, giving the suggestors some ships to micro-manage, ought to be worth it.
Another idea, would be to let them have tactical importance by having a "support squad", that has a range of spells gadgets & backup weaponry, to impact combat in an important manner. Rockets(Fireball), Supplies(Buffs), Repair-Drones(Heals), Electronical War-Fare(Debuffs) - really, just go through some mage-spell list, and change the context to sci-fi needs for this one.

[Chiefwaffles]

So basically have inactive people be "mission control"? Sounds interesting.
I could base the available support actions off of base facilities, controlled ships in the area, and have them cost money.

That + easy death = fun.
You get players screaming for fire support while the people back at mission control are arguing over whether or not it's worth the money.

[escaped lurker]

So basically have inactive people be "mission control"? Sounds interesting.
I could base the available support actions off of base facilities, controlled ships in the area, and have them cost money.

That + easy death = fun.
You get players screaming for fire support while the people back at mission control are arguing over whether or not it's worth the money.

Kind of like a tactical RTD with team advancement, eh? That does sound nice. Cobble up some way to present the battle with pictures, and I can't really imagine it not being quite popular.

Actually, if you change the scenario, as that rescue-pods are a thing, and actually good at doing their job, even "death" / ship destruction, wouldn't upset the ic players as much, and give them character progression. Well, the major upset would be the loss of their ship plus getting to the back of the waitlist, and that ought to hurt enough.

[ATHATH]

From the SRD:

Guardian nagas cast spells as 9th-level sorcerers, and can also cast spells from the cleric list and from the Good and Law domains. The cleric spells and domain spells are considered arcane spells for a guardian naga, meaning that the creature does not need a divine focus to cast them.

So in the absence of other information, "casts as a sorcerer" tends to imply spontaneity, sorcerer spells-per-day, Cha-based saves and bonus spells, and access to the sorcerer spell list. There's nothing preventing tampering with that last bit, though, especially when it comes to SLAs.

That said, I don't recall how spellstitching works exactly, so I couldn't swear on the details there.

Captains are independent of the regular squadmembers, and are chosen for missions separately. They usually have their own "flagship" that only they fly, and the 'communal' ships that all captains can fly.
Without ships, the squad won't have as many tactical options. With ships, they can receive fire support, get picked up and dropped off as needed, etc..
Players not selected for a mission can crew ships with Captains for some kind of bonus - increased abilities, most likely.

What's the point of splitting off ships into an entirely separate thing? Why not just include a piloting stat or set of stats, and let players jump into or out of a cockpit as the situation warrants?

Hey guys. In case anyone cared, Dexexe (The guy wot made all those fancy adventures with pictures in) moved off Bay12 and set up shop over on Sufficient Velocity.

I say this because I got a PM asking about him recently and I thought I'd spread the news around a little, I guess.

How's he doing?

Thanks. Here's the link to the FGH page on the template: http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/spellstitched.shtml

[kj1225]

So, stepping away from DnD and space mercenaries...

Spoiler: Spoilered for length (click to show/hide)

I'm making up a small system for games that are a little bit silly and involve lots of anime martial arts stuff that can be run with just a D20.
The game has six stats. Strength which determines raw power, dexterity which determines finesse and how fast you are, Willpower which determines the users sheer force of will, Intelligence his is how smart someone is, Charisma which determines how attractive or likeable you are, and luck which is the stat for things like firing guns and not getting targeted by bosses.
There are six classes which each specialize in one of the stats and is bad at one other stat. Every class starts with a 1 in every stat.
Brawlers specialize in strength using overwhelming force to defeat their enemies, but lack the willpower others have.
Artists Specialize in dexterity using huge amounts of blows to get through the defence of others but are less intelligent.
Monks Have willpower on their side and use fast calculated moves to slow down foes alongside their inability to accept defeat to stay in the fight longer, but are not as damaging as their fellows.
Ninja attack using dirty tactics to surprise and demoralise their enemy, but are naturally slower to act.
Cuties talk their enemies down from attacking and are generally well liked. This makes them unlucky because it makes them an obvious first choice for being attacked by heartless enemies.
Everymen are pretty much normal and use guns unlike their companions who seem to have never moved past knives and swords and other pre-gunpowder weapons. Sadly, they are also natural targets for more charismatic people to lie about and make seem bad.

So, any thoughts on this current kind of mock up?

[IronyOwl]

Thanks. Here's the link to the FGH page on the template: http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/spellstitched.shtml

Well this is awkward.

Times/Day is the number of times per day that the creature can use spell-like abilities of a given level. The creator of the creature must decide how to allocate the spells known. Once this determination has been made for a particular ability, it cannot be changed. For instance, the sample spellstitched creature has magic missile and obscuring mist as its 1st-level spell-like abilities. It can use magic missile three times per day and obscuring mist once per day. The creator cannot later change either the spells or the times per day each can be used.

In addition to not using Sorc spell per day numbers, they're not even properly spontaneous!

Spellstitched creatures can be created only by a wizard or sorcerer of sufficient level to cast the spells to be imbued in the undead's body

More importantly, this part's kind of nebulous. Interestingly, it doesn't say you need to know or be capable of casting the spells, just be "of sufficient level" to cast them. But that doesn't really clarify whether the spells need to be on your spell list, can be from a forbidden school, or even whether we're talking raw class levels or casting ability as raised through prestige classes or other sources.

I'd tentatively say it's a raw caster level thing, ie Wizard 17 or Sorcerer 18 can Spellstitch any valid (meaning Evocation, Conjuration, or Necromancy) spell in the game, Wiz3/Cler3/Mystic Theurge 2 can spellstitch Fireball, and Wizard 1 with Conjuration as a prohibited school can stitch Inflict Light Wounds. But it's ambiguous, and to be honest I'm not sure how much RAW/RAI matters when discussing material component cheating crafted template cheese. I'd probably want to eyeball or modify any particular attempt anyway.

So, any thoughts on this current kind of mock up?

Do the stats actually do anything, and if so how do the classes compare to each other? What does having good Dex but poor Int do for you compared to having good Str but poor Will, for instance?

[kj1225]

It's a good thing I just got back to my notes because I was about to write it down and it leads into the second biggest part of the system.

Spoiler: Stats (click to show/hide)

Willpower:  Gives bonuses to targeted attacks, and increases second wind health if it’s your highest stat.
Strength:  Gives bonuses and reckless strikes and increases damage after a Second Wind if it’s your highest stat.
Dexterity:  Gives bonuses to quick attacks and gives a second attack after a Second wind.
Intelligence:  Increases Flank attack damage and gives a teleport after a Second wind.
Charisma:  Increase the effectiveness of Convincing and allows for the stunning of any one target after a second wind.
Luck:  Increases the effectiveness Shooting and makes you untargetable for the turn after your second wind.

Now there's two things that you may notice about the stats. First, is that each affects an attack. So, you may be wondering why there are so many different attacks and I'll tell you. Each one of them except for flank attacks and shooting is rolled against a certain other stat.

Spoiler: Attack list (click to show/hide)

Reckless strike attacks Dexterity
Quick attack targets Intelligence
Targeted attacks hit Strength
Convincing due to it's nature of talking out the problem attacks willpower
Shooting is rolled against the target's highest stat due to the fact that a martial artist will always see the bullet coming which balances out the fact that it's the only attack that can occur at range.
And flanking attacks occur so long as the attacker is attacking from a flank in melee.

Each of the attacks and their relevant defense gets the total bonus on the roll added. Also of note is that the stats can be used in the same way as attacking in other situations. An example occurs below.

As part of his training the young apprentice ninja Barato has been tasked with stealing another ninja's clothes so Master Yoshi can get 'sensitive information' that is contained within. Yes he did say it with the quotes. Barato failed his willpower roll at that particular time.
Barato has managed to get into the hot springs where the other ninja is relaxing and is now on the final stretch when, out of no where, one of the ninja's friends goes to join her. This is the start of an opposed intelligence test.
The other ninja being Barato's senior has an intelligence skill of +3 which is better than Barato's +2 putting him at a disadvantage. The senior's roll is a five which means that Barato has to roll an 7 or better. Barato rolls a 20 and remains unseen by the older ninja allowing him to complete his test and, more importantly, not seem like a pervert to the rest of the village.

Finally, stats only advance every third level as they are not supposed to be as important as perks which further characterize characters and come every level. (At level four, seven, ten... ect.)

Now the other big thing which is the last bit to finalize before getting to the real customization is Second winds. Now you can probably guess that these are really useful and there is a reason for that. Since the PCs are the main characters and in this system would normally have the same health as a mook, they get to come back into the fight with full health and one action that will always succeed (as long as it's thematically something that would happen. You aren't suddenly going to build the death star for example but you can make sure that you hit your next target.) and get an extra power as seen in the stats explanation.   Some perks, which will be elaborated on more later also have an effect after a second wind.

[Tawa]

Game's up.