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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Duuvian]

That or the canister and marauder should be as good as the PPA. I don't mind dieing to an anti-infantry tank because the first anti-vehicle tank they run into will waste them.

It's the fact that only the Magrider has an anti-infantry secondary that's ever seen in use that sucks. Canister vanguards are so rare I didn't gun one for months, and when I did finally find one there was a small horde of vanu infantry out at the open in mid range and I couldn't kill any of them with it. The pellet spread meant I would hit several at once with one shot but never enough pellets landing on a single one throughout an entire magazine being shot at the same infantryman to kill them much less any other kills whatsoever. A ppa would have melted the whole bunch and forced them into buildings. Vanguards and probably Prowlers use NS weapons for anti-infantry. Often it's a halberd because despite being intended for use against vehicles it's head and shoulders above a canister for anti-infantry. On my own rarely used Vanguard if I don't expect a gunner I do an AP main gun and kobalt secondary. I usually lock it because otherwise a new player will jump in to shoot at liberators or other heavy armor vehicles and makes my stealth armor useless.

[DJ]

PPA is ridiculously superior to NS options, too. Have you ever seen a VS vehicle with a Cobalt? Heck, you won't even see Furies or Bulldogs on their Harassers, because they're clearly outclassed by PPA.

[Duuvian]

I agree. However VS already say the Magrider is the weakest tank and say that justifies having such a strong secondary.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/my-main-problem-with-the-magrider.195609/page-2

Spoiler: A few VS players express their thought on the terrible Magrider (click to show/hide)

   GreatWolf said: ↑

        “The Magrider is actually a little too good at everything, better than the other two at both killing infantry and vehicles due to it's abilities. I think you got a little bit too much of everything. They can spawn camp pretty much any base from multiple angles, flank infantry and vehicles the same way, hence the upcoming cannon and secondaries changes. If you are asking for a Vanguard with Prowler dps and Magrider abilities that's not going to happen.”

    Not really. The only thing it can do better than the other tanks is that it has slightly better AI than the vanguard, thats it. You forget that the other tanks can flank as well.

vanu123, Saturday at 2:44 PM
#30

        Magrider: Less velocity, more drop (Yes, we VS have no bullet drop! LIES:mad:), slowest tank, our ability puts us at a serious risk (The Magburner will become directional soon enough, we all know that), we deal the least damage, our gunners can not look at as many angles as the other tanks, and we are prone to get stuck on many surfaces because of our huge, impractical shape. Plus, our strafe is too slow to dodge anything below 60+ meters, when Prowlers and Vanguards will be able to close the gap because of speed and armor.
    Prowler: More DPS, a faster reload despite having two cannons (Once again, we VS don't have well-implemented characteristics), fastest tank, same armor resistance as the Magrider, and to sacrifice mobility (Doesn't feel Terran), you can double your DPS (Is Terran, but should be implemented in some other way).
    Vanguard: Higher velocity, more damage, faster than the Magrider, reload is only 0.25 seconds slower than the Magrider, most powerful tank, the ability is the most useful of the MBTs, and you will be able to equip the new and awesomely amazing Canister:p
    Everything summed up, Lord MrNature knows how the Magrider SHOULD be.

DatVanuMan, Saturday at 3:00 PM
#33

Personally I think it's not a bad tank, it just has to be used with some care for av work. Being able to strafe sideways isn't as useless as they say, though it's true it's not as useful in close range. At long range though strafing can make it hard to hit and while I don't know if the Saron is usable at that range I do know the halberd is.

Not to mention it earned the nickname Magspider for a reason.

I read on the forums that the magburner is supposed to be able to be used in all directions in a future patch, so that should make it a better tank chassis. Remember how good the Magrider strafe was just after the game released to live from Beta? It will be like that again, but limited by magburner recharge.

At that point if the canister and marauder are not equal to the PPA it would be quite disappointing.

[DJ]

Saying that Magrider is inferior to Vanguard is like saying that Light Assault is inferior to Heavy Assault. Yeah, you'll lose in a head-on fight, but if you're not putting your vastly superior mobility to use you're doing it wrong.

[Jim Groovester]

The PPA is getting nerfed in the upcoming patch. It's getting a magazine reduction, from 50 to 20. The Canister Shell and Marauder are getting minor buffs to hopefully put them all on the same level.

The utility of the PPA isn't its magazine size though. I'm not VS and have never used the PPA outside of VR but it strikes me that a splash damage weapon with no drop on top of a vehicle that can get to places no other vehicle can would be a particularly potent combination. I don't expect a magazine size nerf will accomplish much towards nerfing the PPA's effectiveness.

If they really wanted to nerf the PPA they would add CoF bloom to it. All of a sudden all those stupid magriders on top of hills everywhere can't quite place the shots they need to skilllessly farm a spawn room.

[Duuvian]

I think your CoF idea would be a good choice if canister is to perpetually be a short ranged weapon. Or you could also add a lot of bullet drop so it drops like a Fury round to limit it's range. Unfortunately the complaints about bullet drop on VS weapons where it's obviously needed for balance reasons appear anytime it's mentioned as being a VS specific advantage.

Obviously, if your slug shotgun, sniper rifle or tank cannon has drop (notice they are all weapons that have massive damage in a single shot and thus don't have to worry about recoil as much) that means it's not a benefit in all the assault rifles, carbines, and LMGs that don't. Even the battle rifle has no drop; I'm surprised there are not more VS using it because even with bullet drop the Warden is good enough at long range despite having to compensate slightly for it to get headshots. You wouldn't have to compensate with the Eidolon or whatnot.

Whenever I read a VS saying something like (Yes, we VS have no bullet drop! LIES:mad:) because their tank cannon has drop yet disregards all the weapons that do have no drop I think to myself 'That guy has never tried to shoot an ACX-11 (NC long range carbine) at someone far away.'

[DJ]

Wait, Vanguard is faster than Magrider? Since when? I swear it feels like I can *run* faster than a Vanguard.

And yeah, bloom on PPA would be nice.

[Duuvian]

I think with Racer 3 the Vanguard is a few kph faster at top speed. It's not enough to matter that much if at all. You don't hear me complaining about the prowler being faster and doing more damage. Maybe if it were a racing game.

If you didn't know you can jump gears in teh Vanguard when it hits those plateaus where it holds a speed for a second by releasing and repressing the accelerate key. It will get you to higher speed faster.

[beorn080]

I love the VS battle rifle when I'm running support Engi. Not quite as nice as being a pure sniper, but the fact that I can top off the various tanks and Sundy's as well as drop an AV turret make up for it.

[Duuvian]

I love the VS battle rifle when I'm running support Engi. Not quite as nice as being a pure sniper, but the fact that I can top off the various tanks and Sundy's as well as drop an AV turret make up for it.

Same here, the Warden is my number 1 loadout. I often run around repairing vehicles and since it's usually good sense for them to sit at long range it's a good choice when I do so. Sometimes I drive a flash so I can get to new vehicles faster. I've never gotten the AV turret though. I'd be tempted to use it out of render range and I find that too cheesy.

One thing that annoys me is how the VS Anti-infantry Mana turret has those great big shields that cover the head when it's turned slightly away from you. If I remember correctly the NC side shields are a lot smaller and leave the head exposed, but I don't shoot at them so maybe I'm wrong.

[DJ]

You can't use AV outside of render range any more, it's range has been nerfed severely.

As for Warden, I even use it with a Heavy, though that's with AV lock-ons which I only use when I'm sitting well away from the battle.

[Rex_Nex]

Actually just got the Warden myself, was about to come here and say so! Like I said, I don't like carbines, especially on my engi - so the Warden was a good alternative. Is HVA/FlashSup/Grip the go-to for the battle rifles?

Like it so far, although I was a little embarrassed when I was trying to take out a BR100 TR medic and he managed to make short work of me from sniping ranges with a couple seconds of fire with his TORQ. That accuracy is incredible!

[Duuvian]

If it takes a compensator that's what I use, but yes HVA and grip are good choices.

I'd advise using a 2x reflex in close ranges and 4x truesight at long range. Unless you are trying to headshot someone to death or shooting someone at long range sniper ranges fire it as fast as you can.

[zombat]

The marauder used to be a better version of the fury, literally - it had a bigger clip, slightly faster rof, and at one point a bigger splash damage due to the fury's getting nerf whilst the marauder was overlooked.

Then it got made useless during the harasser nerf, along with the vulcan,
It was made to no longer damage vehicles yet it kept the fury's reduced splash (the fury got reduced to make it more intended for AV work)


So the marauder basically became a grenade weapon that you needed to land direct hits with...

[Duuvian]

Yeah, it could be better and I'd like to see it buffed. For a while it had a little too much splash damage radius though. It felt stronger than the PPA is now because it's splash was so wide as well as being mounted on the tough to kill harassers of that time. I think there was no max and minimum radii at that time, so splash was a little stronger. Instead of a large splash they should make it fire really fast to fit the TR's empire quality. I'd rather you got the anti-infantry chaingun from beta instead of the Marauder as a grenade launcher but it's probably too late for that.

The fury is still really good on a battle sunderer. That's the weapon I was gunning when Periphery and I along with various random 3rd seat gunners went on a killing spree on Hossin in a battlebus that just would not die. It caught on fire at least a half dozen times but we always managed to get it behind cover and repaired.