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[Tierre]

Maybe you should add different pages in your exe which will have TECH, MAGI and so on. And they will be arrabged as a tech tree - so that it will be obvious which button will disrupt which other buttons. Like CHEMISTRY and down of it TURRETS. And i think it is possible to make it so that chemistry will turn off turrets by default (so that it gives less errors).
On other point i think you should add disabling tags not just to buildings but to all parts of those industries - so that disabling stone grinder for example would also disable entity entries and all reactions. It will make less errors in error.log and might help fps a tiny bit by removing some unneeded things from memory.

[Kandryn]

How can I do complex industries with a nice workflow, but at the same time keep the features independent from each other, so people can enable/disable them as they like ? Maybe I should group similar-themed workshops/industries together. Magic, Tech, Metalworking, and so on... instead of a on-off button for each individual buildings.

Games usually solve that by creating a tech tree, cutting a branch will automatically deactivate the following branches.

Oh by the way, 1st time posting here. I'm an old DF player and decided to start a new fort using your impressive mod.

So far the things I liked:

- 100+ fps @170dwarves
- Keeping the DF atmosphere (rifles are on the edge, but that's okay)
- Easy mod setting
- A real wood industry, producing steel!
- Trap upgrades
- Psychiatrist! Putting an end to tantrum spiraling was really needed.
- Batch mod in some workshops (for charcoal, metal bars)
- Magery (healer looks good on the paper, couldnt try them yet though)
- Castes, although it's pretty tedious to check every dwarf for his caste and then proceed to change his job in DTherapist.

What I disliked:

- Low percentage based item, I hate randomness. Yes I'm looking at you, philosopher stone. I'd greatly pay 10 time the current price of the stone and have 100% build success than the current boring setting.
- Enemy depdendant (non-uber) craft. No automaton = No turret.
-Fountain of eternal youth centralize too much things. (earthmancer and lifemancer and full heal and agelessness !) Consider separating them.
- I still did not get where I can create/find wards except from trading. I like the concept of warding though.


What I'd like to see:
- Adding a value on weapon and armor to easily compare their quality (Who here, can easily answer if an exceptional bloodsteel mace is better than a plain mithril mace?) I like min-maxing my army and this is something that I'd really like to see. Currently I have to keep the metal guide picture open and do the math.
- Balancing the game (ouch)
- Completing the guide (what does a preacher / overseer do? )

[Firehawk45]

- Castes, although it's pretty tedious to check every dwarf for his caste and then proceed to change his job in DTherapist.

Therapist shows you the caste plus explanation when you hover over the dwarfs name. Just wanted to tell you

[ed boy]

Here are a few suggestions of my own:

Spoiler: smoker (click to show/hide)

This is basically a building that takes in wood and food and produces smoked food. There's no increase in volume of food, but it would be worth more.

Spoiler: magma producer (click to show/hide)

This is basically a workshop that allows one to produce magma. In the interests of balance, it would have to consume an awful lot of fuel and other materials, and produce ony 1/7 or 2/7 magma.

Spoiler: refurbishing (click to show/hide)

In one of Toady's game updates, he lowered the drop rate of stone to 1 in 4. Unfortunately, I like to have loads and loads of masonry in my fort. I like to have dozens of statues on every level, I like to have my dining hall be able to seat hundreds, and I like to have my noble quarters not have enough room to swing a cat in with all the masterwork furniture. Getting enough masterwork furniture, however, is a bit of a problem. I would therefore like to add a refurbisher's shop/restorer's shop. This would take in some item of furniture, strip it of its quality level, and give it a new one based on the skill of the refurbisher, without consuming any more of the material. There could be different ones available for the different material types (wood, metal, etc). It wouldn't be to cheesy, as you're not changing what object you have, you're just spending some time to redo the quality.

Spoiler: Displaying bodies (click to show/hide)

By taking the dead bodies of hostiles after a conflict, you can put them on display, and they give your dwarves a happy thought before the body rots away.

Spoiler: death totem (click to show/hide)

Part of the evil magic system. A dwarf takes some bones/blood/wood/meat/other organic material. They build a death totem somewhere. When it is built, it emits a cloud of gas for a long time. Those in the gas have a the following chances of happening (all independent probabilities):
-40% coughing
-15% dizziness
-15% struck with nausea
-10% stuck with fear
-5% partial paralysis
-5% unconsciousness
-3% necrosis
The totem could be implemented as a creature which cannot move and continually emits a gas with the effects. However, it would have some finite lifespan. If organic material (e.g. meat, bodies, etc) interacts with the totem gas, it produces another gas which has an interaction with the totem, replenishing its lifespan.

I also have a massive post on the magic system in the works, I'll finish it off and put it up tomorrow.

[Kandryn]

- Castes, although it's pretty tedious to check every dwarf for his caste and then proceed to change his job in DTherapist.

Therapist shows you the caste plus explanation when you hover over the dwarfs name. Just wanted to tell you

Yeah I finally noticed that. t_t  Far easier to manage them !

[ioi101]

@smake: This is exactly my problem. I cant make most things without using other features. But if I have industries that depend on other industries, then they are broken as soon as people disable 1/2 of it. or 1/5. Imagine that a tiny part of the turret building needs a chemist, and they player chose to play without chemistry. Or you have ink, bookcovers, stacks of paper (from whereever) but you disabled the Libraries/Training System. 

How can I do complex industries with a nice workflow, but at the same time keep the features independent from each other, so people can enable/disable them as they like ? Maybe I should group similar-themed workshops/industries together. Magic, Tech, Metalworking, and so on... instead of a on-off button for each individual buildings.

Or combine both, set up your options list as individual buildings, but make it so that if you disable say the chemist, your machine factory is automatically disabled too. And then allow people an option to switch things on/off at will ignoring dependencies (with a warning, etc.).

In all honesty, while I appreciate how you're trying to make the mod so user-friendly and modular (and I love it heh), I don't think this is that big of an issue. DF is already an extremely user unfriendly game, and most people who have stuck with it long enough to get to modding it can live with an issue like this. I think simply writing a text file (or one of your picture guides) that shows the dependencies of the various buildings would be perfectly sufficient, and probably easier then trying to program what I said above. Then if people still want to disable prerequisite industries, they can live with the consequences.

[Meph]

 A little repost about the future ideas for invaders... any comments ?

3 Cavern races
- Spawn of the Holistic (deep) => hard, naturally armed/armored, transformes dwarves => Drop... (?)
 - Xen/Xelic (shallow) => medium, multi-armed, caste system => Drop Special Chitin(?) & Goblinite
 - Ratmen/Skaven => medium, warpstone weapons, mutations, some mages => Drop warpstone stuff

6(7) Evil races
- (Kobolds of course) => very easy, thieves => Drop bags of loot
 - Greenskins (Standard) => easy, Goblins, Orcs, Trolls => Drop Goblinite
 - Terracotta Army (Plains) => easy, naturally armed/armored, golems, chariots => Drop Scrolls of Life
 - Anubites (Desert) => medium, Anubites, egyptian Gods, fight with magic => Drop Sand & goblinite(?)
 - Living Land (Forest) => medium, Druids, Satyrs, Nymphs, Treants, walking plants => Drop wood/seeds
 - Frost Giants (Tundra/Glacier) => hard, giants, icewolves, frost wyverns => Drop bifrost & goblinite
 - Automatons (everywhere) => hard, steampunk spiders, automatons, moving turrets(?) => Drop clockwork parts

Basic idea is that each race will give some kind of material/itemdrop that is needed for high-tech stuff.
Kobolds just drop a bag full of metal bars, so people hunt them down.
Goblins/Orcs drop golbinite, e.g. free metal equipment.
Terracotta army drops magic scrolls/golem related stuff, to give life to inanimate objects. (golems for example)
Anubits/Egyptian Gods drop... NO IDEA
Living Land (working title) drops seeds, wood and plants.
Frost Giants drop bifrost, a metal between steel and adamantine.
Automatons drop clockwork parts, needed for high-tech/mechanical things, like turrets.

Ratmen/Skaven drop warpstone/mutation related things, possibly to upgrade pets a lot more...
Xen/Antmen drop... chitin for some strong and lightweight armor, mostly for archers (?) (BETTER SUGGESTIONS?)
Spawn of the Holistic drop... definetly something special, but I dont know what yet.

So, my question probably is:
What should the Spawn of the Holistic, the Insect Race and the Egyptian Race drop ?

[Tierre]

Xelics can drop either very good chitin for cool armor/clothes or some kind of xelic jelly which will be used in Alchemy for increased vision, and better toughness.
Egyptians can drop Ankhs which will be used in religion and can drop.. mummies which will be reanimated and will be good guards:) Weaker than golems but tougher to kill.

[Meph]

Ankhs makes sense, but I cant base Armoks religion around egyptian-style. Same goes for mummys, I dont want two races to give nearly the same mechanics... I want to use the terracotta army for animating things.

EDIT: Sorry if that sounds very negative ^^

[Flobulon]

--wrong thread, apologies

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

The Egyptian race should have various drops for each caste

A normal stormtrooper anubite might just drop a pile of sand, unuseable. A scarb beetle might drop a boudler of Amber/Sandstone
And the priests of the Gods will drop a gold weapon/tool that the God would hold. Or something related to their spheres

Spawn can drop obsidain hearts, or Void Stones/Crystals
Used to make special metal/creatures.

[Meph]

And the priests of the Gods will drop a gold weapon/tool that the God would hold. Or something related to their spheres

Really like that one. Maybe I should add a "priest" type to all invaders. Goblin/Orcs: Shaman, Living Land: Druid, Undead:Lichs and so on... and in the end you can collect these religious items and sacrifice them to armok. He would like that.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

And the priests of the Gods will drop a gold weapon/tool that the God would hold. Or something related to their spheres

Really like that one. Maybe I should add a "priest" type to all invaders. Goblin/Orcs: Shaman, Living Land: Druid, Undead:Lichs and so on... and in the end you can collect these religious items and sacrifice them to armok. He would like that.

Burn the Heretics and their false gods.
Altho what religious item would a Lich have? a "Phylactery" (is that even how you spell it?)
since really A lich is just a higher level of necromancer.

[Meph]

It is 3:30 at night and I cant sleep, because my brain is full of f*ck. Or trying too hard.

Anyway, three things came to mind.

A chain reaction reaction.
Reaction 1 creates unique ingredient needed for Reaction 2, which starts automatic. This way a long line of reactions can be made, that takes a big amount of time. Good for example dwarves playing music, they have to play 10 notes (reactions) before the benefitial effect of the song starts, or forgemasters that fold steel 10 times (reactions) to form damast-steel from steel. This way I can use time as a resource.

T-Rex.
People seem to like the Raptors and Sauropods, and there are T-Rex Fossils. Why has no one ever asked about an actual T-Rex in the game ? As a mount ? Steel-clad War T-Rex ? Can be done simple enough. No lasers though.

Standardized fossils.
Sounds stupid at first, but hear me out. Fossils are always called fossil. "You have struck a fossil", "This is a masterwork fossil greatsword", "This crown is decorated with bands of fossils"... this would actually sound ok, a lot better then what might happen currently with the specific fossil names.

This standardized fossil would be "unidentified" because stupid mines cant know what they did find. So you bring it to the Archeologist, who can "identify fossil" which has a 10% chance to create 1 of 10 different fossils, the armor bundle, the weapons bundle, the t-rex skull, the treasure chest, all the known stuff and probably a few new ones. These will then in turn used in an automatic reaction to create a random item that fits there theme. Would go like this: Miner find fossil => bring to archeologist => identify => it is a chest => open chest (automatic) => it is full of books and figurines.

The biggest advantage of this is that the fossil hunt would be a lot more interesting. It will not be: Oh, I found a rusty armor bundle, dont need armor, boring.... this time you find a fossil, and it is a lottery. You have no idea what you have found, and will probably watch the Archeologist closely when he identifies it. 10 fossils, times 10 items for each makes 100 options. I could easily do 20, since all the balancing will be done in reactions, and not in the inorganic mats, so how does 20*20=400 different outcomes sound ?

Fourth idea: Workshop that spawns enemies
Has been raised as an idea in the main thread, but probably should be discussed here a bit. A workshop that can spawn groups, or powerfull, single enemies whenever you want. You can train on them, or certain key-elements in tech-trees or entire industries are based upon them. Fight the ancient ghosts of warriors past to recieve their blessing, summon demons and kill them to gain rare ingredients, call upon the test of armok and defeat the Avatar of Armok, to ... well.... anything really.

[ioi101]

Related to your 1) - is it not possible to directly mod the time that a reaction takes? Do they simply have a standard time? If not, then another simple way to effectively increase the time of a reaction is to give it a small chance of working, and a large chance of giving you back your materials when it doesn't. I.e. you fold steel, 90% of the time you get steel back, 10% you get good steel. This may not be applicable everywhere, but it should have the same effect most of the time, and it's probably easier to deal with.

For the fourth idea, is it possible to make buildings appear in the caverns, naturally? I think that would make alot more sense (you found the tomb of blah blah.. do you want to mess with it), but it's probably impossible.