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Author Topic: When Kickstarter Goes Right  (Read 92867 times)

penguinofhonor

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2012, 07:49:56 pm »

So FF sent out an email about the Tropes Vs Women in Video Games' success. Just wanted to post an excerpt for anyone concerned over the whole "money for youtube videos" thing. I don't want to continue any arguing, it's just that anyone who's not a backer didn't get this message and I think it's important info for anyone who's interested.

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The funding has wildly exceeded our initial goal and even our additional stretch goals.  This has all happened so quickly and we've been super busy over here with the Kickstarter, tracking and documenting the harassment and doing media interviews.  But in between all that we've been discussing some exciting ideas for how to use the additional funds to expand the project in a really meaningful way.  My team and I are going to take a few days to process everything that's happened and figure out exactly what the extended scope of this project will be. 

Over the past three years I've been dedicated to making Feminist Frequency videos whenever I could but its still essentially been a passionate side project between freelance jobs. This is such an exciting moment because my team and I can now commit full time to Feminist Frequency and to producing this collection of engaging, in depth and critical videos that will contribute to the ongoing conversation about women's representations in video games.

What we do know for sure is that the issue of harassment both in the gaming community and on the internet in general has sadly, become intertwined with this Kickstarter campaign so we're definitely going to include a substantial additional component to this project that will directly address the epidemic of misogynist, racist and homophobic online harassment.
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Neonivek

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2012, 08:20:27 pm »

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I disagree, if there is one thing I dislike about the whole "sexualization of women in media" ordeal, its the belief that a character with sex appeal can't be important, or can't be a well written character. There are PLENTY of female characters that have sex appeal(or at least an attempt at it, see example), but are still fairly well written. See, most of the female leads in the Disgaea series. Hell, contrary to beleif JRPGS in general have some of the best female characters.

That wasn't where I was going at all. It was more that I have observed in that section that mysteriosly the female characters with the most characterisation and depth seemed to be the ones who were going for a more balanced appearance then outright sexy. It is why the reimagining of Lara Croft, which admittingly is like an entirely different person, severely toned down her cleavage.

Why? Because being extremely sexy isn't their focus. Could it be included anyway? Yes certainly, there are quite a few sexy and deep characters.

So why would a sexy woman have less character when they don't need less character? My observation is it seems like being sexy is being used as a replacement for having character.

It is pretty bad when it is used against the characterisation of the character (See Sophitia Syndrome) as well.
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kaijyuu

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2012, 08:48:01 pm »

These are smaller issues, but here are three non-personality arguments for why there shouldn't be so many chainmail bikinis:


1) Not everyone's into that. When I said earlier that I find a women in practical full plate more attractive than a plate thong and bra, I meant in a physical sense. Gimme a bit of sweat and grime, and some flesh on those bones, arms that look like they could actually lift a broadsword, and you give me one of those awkward boners. You want women with super boobs in a two piece? Fine, but I want girls that look like they could kick my ass. More variety = more varied appeal.
2) Remember that female characters are often role models, intentional or not. If all girls see is these incredibly (and stereotypically) sexy women, they're going to have unreasonable expectations for their own appearance. Physical appearance is a big deal for women (generally speaking), so this sort of stuff contributes to body shame. This is a not-insignificant contributer to anorexia, bulimia, and depression. Barbie got a redesign for this very reason.
3) This is only a problem for things that require live actors (so very rarely something that has to do with video games), but the vast, vast majority of female acting roles are expected to be physically attractive. This isn't true for males; you can find plenty of movies with men that aren't stereotypical hunks, but it's rare to find a moderately unattractive (but not hideous) female character. This is an employment issue. Talented actors are being passed up because they don't have the right hourglass shaped body.


Fact is, being physically attractive is way, way overrated for female characters and it's having quite a few adverse effects.



Re: JRPG and anime female characters.
Japan has its own gender roles and stereotypes. They just seem better to us since they're not acting like western gender stereotypes. They're typecast into "female" roles just as bad if not worse. For example, you'll be hard pressed to find significant female characters that aren't either incredibly loud (genki girls, super assertive girls, tsunderes, etc) or incredibly quiet. It's like there's no middle ground. Usually if you have a female character leading a group of some sort, they'll constantly let the people there (and the audience) know that despite being a woman, they're in charge. And they'll do this loudly. Or, you'll have a female character so quiet that it unnerves everyone and the implication is they're in charge and don't need to say anything at all. The only exceptions to this rule I've found are characters that are old (christmas cakes, etc) or occasionally some characters in all-girl ensembles.




The problem concerning female characterization is and always has been lack of variety. "Female" becomes an overarching character type, and not just one of many traits like it should be. None of the common female character types are really inherently bad; just their ubiquity.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 09:07:03 pm by kaijyuu »
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Neonivek

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2012, 08:51:16 pm »

Well the other arguement against chainmail bikinis is that they are stupid.

One issue with a lot of oversexualised videogame women is that... their sexuality, or at least their attempts to make them extremely sexualised, works against them in a setting where they should be more serious.

Hello Female warrior... why are you wearing a bikini in the tundra? Uhhh... I'll stick with the male warrior, he looks like he knows what he is doing.

It fits into my theme of using sex against a character. Take a competent well rounded character who is intelligent... make them dress contrary to that... boom you got a stupid character... but arn't they hot?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 08:59:31 pm by Neonivek »
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G-Flex

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #94 on: June 18, 2012, 08:44:11 pm »

These are smaller issues, but here are three non-personality arguments for why there shouldn't be so many chainmail bikinis:

Man, do people need to actually be told why that's stupid?

It's because they're absurd and exist only to sacrifice any sort of logic in clothing in favor of titillating adolescent heterosexual males, who are apparently the only market, or so you'd think.

If they treated men just as ridiculously in the games, or better yet, didn't treat anybody that ridiculously, things would be a lot better. As it stands, however, it's mostly just women who are treated as sex objects, and often to the exclusion of common sense, "chainmail bikinis" being a common example.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #95 on: June 18, 2012, 08:48:20 pm »

I want to see a chainmail banana hammock.
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MaximumZero

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #96 on: June 19, 2012, 06:22:59 pm »

I want to see a chainmail banana hammock.
That would be a terribly uncomfortable hammock, no matter how much swing room you put in it. :P
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OddTheTall

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2012, 06:14:14 pm »

Sorry to drag the thread kicking and screaming on(off?) topic but here's a project to produce a kind of game that I have been wanting since I started reenactment/Western martial arts.
It's a proper swordfighting game - the moves are from the fight manuals of the times.
CLANG

And it even has some relevence to the the prevous conversation!  :P
Incidently, this is a rather amusing video about female armor.
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Neonivek

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2012, 09:56:21 pm »

Sorry to drag the thread kicking and screaming on(off?) topic but here's a project to produce a kind of game that I have been wanting since I started reenactment/Western martial arts.
It's a proper swordfighting game - the moves are from the fight manuals of the times.
CLANG

And it even has some relevence to the the prevous conversation!  :P
Incidently, this is a rather amusing video about female armor.

My issue is that I really really hate hype and there is so much surrounding it I am actually genuinly scared I will be assaulted by a meme making machine two seconds into this.
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Draco18s

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #99 on: July 13, 2012, 08:32:47 am »

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/53178685/hatching-dragons-creating-original-dragon-art

The artist is a wonderful person and she does fantastic art.  Her style is soft and quick, but retains a level of smooth and refined edges (i.e. despite being fast, it's not messy).
I've also seen some indication that this maybe her senior project for college, or as an extension of it.
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kaijyuu

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #100 on: July 13, 2012, 08:36:32 am »

Kinda off topic, and maybe it's an art style thing, but that looks like a little too much muscle tone on the dragons :X Sometimes I think some artists are glancing back and forth between an anatomy book and what they're working on and forget there's more than just muscle and skin.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Draco18s

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #101 on: July 13, 2012, 09:31:23 am »

Kinda off topic, and maybe it's an art style thing, but that looks like a little too much muscle tone on the dragons :X Sometimes I think some artists are glancing back and forth between an anatomy book and what they're working on and forget there's more than just muscle and skin.

She just over-defines her musculature sometimes.  There's only the two pieces visible on Kickstarter, but looking through her gallery, it's not always true, but definitely occurs more often on the dragons than the non-dragons.  I've always chalked it up to a stylistic choice of darkening the lighting/shadowing of the curvature of the skin more than necessary.
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Levi

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2012, 11:48:49 am »

http://www.fortressofdoors.com/2012/07/freeloadable-content-alternative-to.html

I wanted to post this blog post I just read, because I'd be interested in hearing peoples opinions of it.  Its basically about using kickstarter to fund free DLC, which seemed like a nice idea.
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Shardok

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #103 on: July 24, 2012, 11:49:10 pm »

This is particularly dwarfy and therefore definitely deserves a shoutout here :P

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2087444096/dwarven-adventurers-box-set

Some pretty well done pewter Dwarf miniatures, and a Troll too. If ya do look at it, make sure you scroll All the way down to see all of them, as the 15 it shows at the top isn't every miniature.
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Thief^

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Re: When Kickstarter Goes Right
« Reply #104 on: July 25, 2012, 04:23:53 am »

Now that I've gone for. Only 11 hours left, get it while you can! A dwarven miner and brewmaster are available for that DF feel :)
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