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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: April 07, 2013, 10:34:35 am

[Tack]

((Force being mass x acceleration sounds like you're just looking at an accelerating object to see how much force is being acted upon it. Not helpful in this context, what with inertia and all.
Kinetic energy seems like a much more plausible force.

Also, going off guesswork here, but I'm guessing that it's meant to trigger in 'flashes', like one per punch. So using it for constant movement of something sounds like an instant battery drain.))

[Unholy_Pariah]

((Force is kinetic energy))

((It isn't as far as I know. Kinetic energy is ((mass x speed²)/2), while force is (mass x acceleration). If you move at a constant speed of, say, 100 meters per second, you have a large amount of kinetic energy by earthly standards, but the sum of all forces acting upon you is 0 (in deep space, I believe this means that there are no significant forces acting upon you at all).))

((force isn't electrical, thermal or light energy therefore it must be kinetic.

also i think you are referring to inertia...))

((Force being mass x acceleration sounds like you're just looking at an accelerating object to see how much force is being acted upon it. Not helpful in this context, what with inertia and all.
Kinetic energy seems like a much more plausible force.

Also, going off guesswork here, but I'm guessing that it's meant to trigger in 'flashes', like one per punch. So using it for constant movement of something sounds like an instant battery drain.))

((also yes, an amp will only trigger once per impact.))

[BFEL]

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

[Unholy_Pariah]

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

((Not really. I think some tests were run in VR. The issue is that the mechanism behind the squaring of the force loses efficiency as the amount of force increases. Which is why it says "up to square". With a Rod From God scenario, the kinetic amplifier loses most of the added energy in the form of light and heat, creating more of a conventional explosion, and barely adding 50% to the overall damage. At least I think that's what happened, unless my memory is mistaken.

Stapling more amplifiers on to strike all at once does give better results though. Additive, not exponential, but still.))

[GreatWyrmGold]

((Edit: if i design a modified heavy gauss cannon that fires 1 meter long tungsten rods is anyone opposed to me actually using it?))

((Depends. What's your bonus to skill and will it be anywhere near anyone I care about?))

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

((Let's check the math...
Assume "orbit" is about 200 km, a pretty low low-Earth orbit, and that we have a 5-ton weight. Assuming Earth gravity, it will take about 143 seconds [someone check my math]; ignoring air resistance, this leads to a final velocity of about 1,400 m/s. With 5,000 kg behind it, the final force is seven million N. Squaring that gives us 49 trillion N, which is probably enough to smash half of the crust to bits...
You know, this is a lot more fun than my physics homework. I wonder why.))

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

((Not really. I think some tests were run in VR. The issue is that the mechanism behind the squaring of the force loses efficiency as the amount of force increases. Which is why it says "up to square". With a Rod From God scenario, the kinetic amplifier loses most of the added energy in the form of light and heat, creating more of a conventional explosion, and barely adding 50% to the overall damage. At least I think that's what happened, unless my memory is mistaken.

Stapling more amplifiers on to strike all at once does give better results though. Additive, not exponential, but still.))

((Well that screws up my calculations.))

[Unholy_Pariah]

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

((Not really. I think some tests were run in VR. The issue is that the mechanism behind the squaring of the force loses efficiency as the amount of force increases. Which is why it says "up to square". With a Rod From God scenario, the kinetic amplifier loses most of the added energy in the form of light and heat, creating more of a conventional explosion, and barely adding 50% to the overall damage. At least I think that's what happened, unless my memory is mistaken.

Stapling more amplifiers on to strike all at once does give better results though. Additive, not exponential, but still.))

((but the light and heat are byproducts of the shockwave created by the impact and the atmospheric friction on the rod, they have nothing to do with the amp at all, why would it lose efficiency to them?

understanding not achieved.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

((Not really. I think some tests were run in VR. The issue is that the mechanism behind the squaring of the force loses efficiency as the amount of force increases. Which is why it says "up to square". With a Rod From God scenario, the kinetic amplifier loses most of the added energy in the form of light and heat, creating more of a conventional explosion, and barely adding 50% to the overall damage. At least I think that's what happened, unless my memory is mistaken.

Stapling more amplifiers on to strike all at once does give better results though. Additive, not exponential, but still.))

((but the light and heat are byproducts of the shockwave created by the impact and the atmospheric friction on the rod, they have nothing to do with the amp at all, why would it lose efficiency to them?

understanding not achieved.))

((No, the light and heat are byproducts of the amp, also. When the energy input increases, the energy output becomes less and less coherent, and instead of coming out as kinetic energy, the amplified force comes out as radiant thermal energy and light. That's the reason why the double-amp setup in the Token is single-use - squaring the squared force simply destroys the amps with thermal backlash of the second one, it's too much force for an amp to handle.

At least that's the explanation I think we've been given. Piecewise will have to clarify that one himself.))

[Unholy_Pariah]

((stupid Google-fu failing me... why can i not find out the detonation force of TNT in newtons and use it to plot the destruction radius of a kinetically amplified rod from god ))

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

((Not really. I think some tests were run in VR. The issue is that the mechanism behind the squaring of the force loses efficiency as the amount of force increases. Which is why it says "up to square". With a Rod From God scenario, the kinetic amplifier loses most of the added energy in the form of light and heat, creating more of a conventional explosion, and barely adding 50% to the overall damage. At least I think that's what happened, unless my memory is mistaken.

Stapling more amplifiers on to strike all at once does give better results though. Additive, not exponential, but still.))

((but the light and heat are byproducts of the shockwave created by the impact and the atmospheric friction on the rod, they have nothing to do with the amp at all, why would it lose efficiency to them?

understanding not achieved.))

((No, the light and heat are byproducts of the amp, also. When the energy input increases, the energy output becomes less and less coherent, and instead of coming out as kinetic energy, the amplified force comes out as radiant thermal energy and light. That's the reason why the double-amp setup in the Token is single-use - squaring the squared force simply destroys the amps with thermal backlash of the second one, it's too much force for an amp to handle.

At least that's the explanation I think we've been given. Piecewise will have to clarify that one himself.))

((i understand that the sheer amount of kinetic energy being released is gonna cause an ungodly amount of atmospheric friction which will create an insane amount of light and heat if that's what you mean... but i don't think it would deduct that much energy from the kinetic explosion, relatively speaking of course.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((stupid Google-fu failing me... why can i not find out the detonation force of TNT in newtons and use it to plot the destruction radius of a kinetically amplified rod from god ))

((Well its worth noting I came up with those before really seeing more then the initial description of the KA. The "terminal velocity" thing was born from poor understanding at best.
Piecewise seems like a pretty damned intelligent dude, he seems to have thought all this through and left relatively little room for cheating physics ))

((the fuck are you on about? the orbital drop will work exactly as you think it will, hell a tungsten rod between 1 and 10 tons in weight (cant remember the exact number) dropped from orbit is enough to reduce an entire island to nothing but a smoldering lump of molten slag... putting a kinetic amplifier on the end would vaporize half a continent.))

((Not really. I think some tests were run in VR. The issue is that the mechanism behind the squaring of the force loses efficiency as the amount of force increases. Which is why it says "up to square". With a Rod From God scenario, the kinetic amplifier loses most of the added energy in the form of light and heat, creating more of a conventional explosion, and barely adding 50% to the overall damage. At least I think that's what happened, unless my memory is mistaken.

Stapling more amplifiers on to strike all at once does give better results though. Additive, not exponential, but still.))

((but the light and heat are byproducts of the shockwave created by the impact and the atmospheric friction on the rod, they have nothing to do with the amp at all, why would it lose efficiency to them?

understanding not achieved.))

((No, the light and heat are byproducts of the amp, also. When the energy input increases, the energy output becomes less and less coherent, and instead of coming out as kinetic energy, the amplified force comes out as radiant thermal energy and light. That's the reason why the double-amp setup in the Token is single-use - squaring the squared force simply destroys the amps with thermal backlash of the second one, it's too much force for an amp to handle.

At least that's the explanation I think we've been given. Piecewise will have to clarify that one himself.))

((i understand that the sheer amount of kinetic energy being released is gonna cause an ungodly amount of atmospheric friction which will create an insane amount of light and heat if that's what you mean... but i don't think it would deduct that much energy from the kinetic explosion, relatively speaking of course.))

((It's not the friction, it's the device itself. The device would be generating light and heat instead of kinetic energy, like a water stream will start spraying and splattering from the nozzle if too much pressure is put behind it. Think of it this way. Take a massive hammer, and strike an anvil. You are transferring the kinetic energy of the hammer into the anvil, and you'd expect that the anvil receives all of that energy, but that's not true. Because both the hammer and the anvil heat up, and the energy lost to heat reduces the kinetic energy transferred, even if negligibly for just a hammer and an anvil. A kinetic amp is the same way, except that proportion of energy lost to heating also increases exponentially as the force increases, making extremely powerful blows dump most of the amplified energy into heat and light, and only delivering a fraction as kinetic energy. Make sense now?))

[Unholy_Pariah]

((Sort of, but i always figured it would stay above 60-70% kinetic, but then again... space magic does disregard all notions pf physics and common sense...))

[GreatWyrmGold]

((Let me put it this way: I'm pretty sure I could make a perpetual motion machine with a few kinetic amps and--especially with the output heat and light--use it to generate electricity.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Let me put it this way: I'm pretty sure I could make a perpetual motion machine with a few kinetic amps and--especially with the output heat and light--use it to generate electricity.))

((They'd run out of their own power and/or slag themselves before long. Before short, even.))

[GreatWyrmGold]

((Simple: Have the generator power the amps. Tell me how much electricity it takes to run a kinetic amp (and the kinetic-energy-to-electricity efficiency of the generator), and I'll tell you how big the generator would need to be.))

[Parisbre56]

((You can't mess with space magic thingies. They have special batteries that contain the souls that power them.

Also, Gauss generators generate infinite energy. Problem solved.))