Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Zangi]

On the other hand, you can't access the trading post from the craft station (which is 90% of times I want to use it), you can't repair armor at any vendor, there's no dungeon finder or even LFG system of any sort (other then spamming chat), you can't mail your alts stuff (forcing you to port to the bank on two separate chars), WvW balance is completely and utterly broken in a predictable way that I can't imagine they didn't see coming, and like I said early the way conditions are handled is really terrible.

They've come up with (and copied) a lot of good ideas, but some of the stuff they didn't copy and some of the decisions they made are really strange.

I'm sure you have heard arguments against dungeon finders in other MMOs...  I'm going to say...  you don't need it.  There are more then enough people in lion's arch or the regions with dungeons looking for group/members.  (At least in Ehmry Bay) 
But yea, all a matter of convenience...  I personally ended up just grouping with guild members in Rift when dungeon finder showed up.  Or joining people who still use the chat.   Many random dungeon finder groups that I have joined... fail, despite the dungeons being made easier(in Rift).  I expect no less, even worse rates in GW2 unless the dungeons are all made much easier.

There is a LFG system, its just pretty crappy and not really needed, from my perspective anyways...

[BurnedToast]

Oh yeah, the current system is fine if you don't mind travelling to the zone the dungeon is in then spamming chat for a while. Sometimes you instantly get a group and sometimes you have to wait an hour, but you will find one eventually right?

But what about people who want to run around doing quests instead of sitting in noob world spamming chats? People who play at 3 am when the population is low? People who want to run unpopular dungeons? People who don't have potentially an extra hour to spam chats? people who want to run STORY MODE (which is very difficult to find a group for these days, especially off-peak hours)?

There's no excuse for a modern MMO, especially an innovative one like GW2, to be stuck with the archaic "spamming chat channels" system as the ONLY group finding mechanism in the game*. It's absurd.... especially since we already know cross server dungeons work and making it cross server would be mean you could INSTANTLY find a group for any dungeon, story or explorable, at any hour of the day.

Meanwhile, no I've never heard a good argument against dungeon finder, ever. If you don't like it - nobody is forcing you to use it, you can keep spamming chat or make groups from your guild. That shuts down the overwhelming majority of arguments right there.

* - I know technically you can set yourself as lfg in the contacts menu, but I dunno wtf that does and despite running around with it on almost constantly for a week I never once got a single invite for anything. It might exist, but it does not actually do anything and even if it did work, probably less then 10% of the community knows it even exists making it worthless.

[Squanto]

Yeah, they really do need a LFG system or at least a chat channel for it so my general stays relatively uncluttered.  Yet, I have never seen anyone outside CM looking for members, and have only ever seen 1 person actually look for a group for it, making it hard to complete that on story for me.

[Folly]

I was having a really difficult time finding parties; spending hours at a time without finding anything. Then I moved to another server(from one 'High Population' server to another) and now I find a party within minutes, any time day or night. It's fastest to look in Lion's Arch, but I can find them in the dungeon-adjacent maps also.

There is actually a LFG system, but it's not cross-server or even cross-map. You can flag yourself as /lfg and other people in the same map can see you in their social window, but it's not very intuitive and few people use it.

[Squanto]

Yeah, I've seen a few people running round with the LFG icon, though it only appears next to their name when you can see them and threre is no hint as to what it means, leaving you to figure it out yourself.

[penguinofhonor]

Oh, that's what that weird icon is? I've always wondered what it was for.

[evilcherry]

Oh yeah, the current system is fine if you don't mind travelling to the zone the dungeon is in then spamming chat for a while. Sometimes you instantly get a group and sometimes you have to wait an hour, but you will find one eventually right?

But what about people who want to run around doing quests instead of sitting in noob world spamming chats? People who play at 3 am when the population is low? People who want to run unpopular dungeons? People who don't have potentially an extra hour to spam chats? people who want to run STORY MODE (which is very difficult to find a group for these days, especially off-peak hours)?

There's no excuse for a modern MMO, especially an innovative one like GW2, to be stuck with the archaic "spamming chat channels" system as the ONLY group finding mechanism in the game*. It's absurd.... especially since we already know cross server dungeons work and making it cross server would be mean you could INSTANTLY find a group for any dungeon, story or explorable, at any hour of the day.

Meanwhile, no I've never heard a good argument against dungeon finder, ever. If you don't like it - nobody is forcing you to use it, you can keep spamming chat or make groups from your guild. That shuts down the overwhelming majority of arguments right there.

* - I know technically you can set yourself as lfg in the contacts menu, but I dunno wtf that does and despite running around with it on almost constantly for a week I never once got a single invite for anything. It might exist, but it does not actually do anything and even if it did work, probably less then 10% of the community knows it even exists making it worthless.

Pugs unfortunately only works for easier dungeons. I don't think things like CoE are puggable especially when people expected a cakewalk.

[penguinofhonor]

Halloween update tonight! Costumes, mining candy corn (which is a currency for some halloween gear), new halloween jumping puzzles and events, and new non-halloween jumping puzzles and events (yay permanent content). Basically this is going to be the first really big, cool patch.

[krisslanza]

Oh yeah, the current system is fine if you don't mind travelling to the zone the dungeon is in then spamming chat for a while. Sometimes you instantly get a group and sometimes you have to wait an hour, but you will find one eventually right?

But what about people who want to run around doing quests instead of sitting in noob world spamming chats? People who play at 3 am when the population is low? People who want to run unpopular dungeons? People who don't have potentially an extra hour to spam chats? people who want to run STORY MODE (which is very difficult to find a group for these days, especially off-peak hours)?

There's no excuse for a modern MMO, especially an innovative one like GW2, to be stuck with the archaic "spamming chat channels" system as the ONLY group finding mechanism in the game*. It's absurd.... especially since we already know cross server dungeons work and making it cross server would be mean you could INSTANTLY find a group for any dungeon, story or explorable, at any hour of the day.

Meanwhile, no I've never heard a good argument against dungeon finder, ever. If you don't like it - nobody is forcing you to use it, you can keep spamming chat or make groups from your guild. That shuts down the overwhelming majority of arguments right there.

* - I know technically you can set yourself as lfg in the contacts menu, but I dunno wtf that does and despite running around with it on almost constantly for a week I never once got a single invite for anything. It might exist, but it does not actually do anything and even if it did work, probably less then 10% of the community knows it even exists making it worthless.

There's actually a few common arguments against the LFG system used in say, WoW.

Mainly that it utterly kills any sense of actually communicating and making friends by meeting people. It just turns all dungeon running into another mindless grind with people who want to do nothing more then run through the dungeon as quickly and efficiently as possible. And in a way you ARE forced to use it - because if you try to ask for it in chat, people will just tell you to shut up and go use the LFG instead of 'spamming' them with your requests.

Not every MMO needs to be of the mentality that you need things now. Sure, it does kind of suck for people who play at awkward times or have very little time to play but... you can't please everyone, which is a sad (and sometimes happy, considering some people's idea of being pleased is at the expense of everyone else) fact of MMO games.

[Zangi]

Well, current dungeons in GW2 really have to be dumbed down to a lower common denominator.... and have a very large active population of +exotic geared players(we are assuming they earned that gear and know how to play/know the dungeon) actively taking part in the Dungeon LFG...

You will get many many horror stories of fail PUGs and Assholes in the Dungeon LFG... and encounter many of em yourself within the first 6-12 months of its inception.  After that, well, it should only be assholes if +80% of everyone else still running is +exotic geared...
Yea, you are opening up the dungeon to a larger player base who normally would not do the dungeons... there is no entry barrier. (Socializing and some effort on the player's part.)   They tend to fail harder on a regular basis.

There is also the fact that players get less rewards for doing the same path within a dungeon more then once a day... and if the PUG group wants to go one way... and a player has already done it, they are screwed.  (Likely to be quitter debuffs.)

[BurnedToast]

There's actually a few common arguments against the LFG system used in say, WoW.

Mainly that it utterly kills any sense of actually communicating and making friends by meeting people. It just turns all dungeon running into another mindless grind with people who want to do nothing more then run through the dungeon as quickly and efficiently as possible. And in a way you ARE forced to use it - because if you try to ask for it in chat, people will just tell you to shut up and go use the LFG instead of 'spamming' them with your requests.

Not every MMO needs to be of the mentality that you need things now. Sure, it does kind of suck for people who play at awkward times or have very little time to play but... you can't please everyone, which is a sad (and sometimes happy, considering some people's idea of being pleased is at the expense of everyone else) fact of MMO games.

What sense of communicating and making friends by meeting people? I've run lots of dungeons (everyone who suggested AC story was just bad was right, the rest seem fun) - sometimes people are chatty and joke around, sometimes it's all business no talk rush through. In 0 cases have I actually ever grouped or talked with (or even, as far as I can remember, even seen) any of them ever again. Dungeon finder would make the situation worse how?

As for people telling you to shut up and use dungeon finder - well, that's because spamming chats for groups is actually kind of annoying and stupid.. but there's no alternative right now so people just put up with it. Dungeon finder is the same thing, but automated and better in every way, so why do you oppose it yet say spamming channels is good?

Meanwhile, there's still guilds and friends lists if you want to form a circle of friends to run dungeons with (I'm about 75% sure you can group up with people on different servers and do dungeons right now, and if not you will be able to for sure whenever they get server guesting working).

Well, current dungeons in GW2 really have to be dumbed down to a lower common denominator.... and have a very large active population of +exotic geared players(we are assuming they earned that gear and know how to play/know the dungeon) actively taking part in the Dungeon LFG...

You will get many many horror stories of fail PUGs and Assholes in the Dungeon LFG... and encounter many of em yourself within the first 6-12 months of its inception.  After that, well, it should only be assholes if +80% of everyone else still running is +exotic geared...
Yea, you are opening up the dungeon to a larger player base who normally would not do the dungeons... there is no entry barrier. (Socializing and some effort on the player's part.)   They tend to fail harder on a regular basis.

There is also the fact that players get less rewards for doing the same path within a dungeon more then once a day... and if the PUG group wants to go one way... and a player has already done it, they are screwed.  (Likely to be quitter debuffs.)

Dungeons are already "dumbed down" - you can respawn zerg every encounter in every dungeon I've seen so far (full disclosure: I'm not level 80 yet). Will you get fail PUGs and assholes? Yes, but you get those right now with the chat spam method - how will dungeon finder change that?

You say entry barrier like it's a good thing. Why? Why do you think some people, who payed just as much as you did for the game, should not be allowed to play all the content? Why do you think they should be locked out? Who cares if they fail - they will either get better and eventually win, or they will give up and the situation is exactly the same as it is now. Plus, I'm not sure "plays during the night" or "picked a low pop server" or "wants to do other content while LFG instead of spamming in town" is a good choice for an entry barrier.

The problem with paths and rewards is a problem right now too. It would not be a difficult one to solve though, if it included checkboxes or something then dungeon finder might actually make the situation significantly better, not worse.

Not seeing any compelling arguments here, or even a single advantage to keeping chat spam as the only group finding mechanism

[penguinofhonor]

the patch is outttt

[krisslanza]

I'll admit I'm biased in that I hated the LFG system in WoW. At first I liked it, but then I just started to hate it. It seemed to start taking any of the actual game out of the game, and just turned into... I dunno, too... convenient. Perhaps since I started playing MMOs back in EQ, and loved having to explore the world... and then people start complaining if it takes them 5 minutes to walk somewhere.

Whatever happened to people ENJOYING the journey instead of just wanting the goal?

[BuriBuriZaemon]

I'll admit I'm biased in that I hated the LFG system in WoW. At first I liked it, but then I just started to hate it. It seemed to start taking any of the actual game out of the game, and just turned into... I dunno, too... convenient. Perhaps since I started playing MMOs back in EQ, and loved having to explore the world... and then people start complaining if it takes them 5 minutes to walk somewhere.

Whatever happened to people ENJOYING the journey instead of just wanting the goal?

Two reasons:
1. Technology turns many things into instances these days. From instant noodle to instant message delivery (emails as opposed to posts). We are getting used to getting things instantly and this mindset crosses over into gaming.
2. Certain group of gamers prefer to get right into the action. I know this may not be an apple-to-apple comparison but I have been playing more World of Tanks than Guild Wars 2 because I can go straight into a battle in World of Tanks. Given the limited free time that I have, it works out better for me.

[Ghills]

the patch is outttt

I'm really excited about this. I love Halloween.

EDIT: Is there a DF guild running around somewhere, or are most DF players on a common server? It would be cool if there was, but I can't read through all these posts to tell.