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[Flying Dice]

I really doubt you're a sociopath. I think it sounds more like you're just wanting to project yourself as a sociopath because it seems 'cool' and you have an idea that it would make you seem intimidating and/or enigmatic.

Truth is, I doubt a real sociopath would go on an internet forum and proclaim themselves to be such. In fact, I suspect most people who are true sociopaths don't actually understand that they're sociopaths and probably believe that their perception of the world is the more normal one.

This is a fairly accurate summary of my thoughts on this thread as well. If you're wondering if you're a sociopath, you probably aren't.

[Neonivek]

Truth is, I doubt a real sociopath would go on an internet forum and proclaim themselves to be such. In fact, I suspect most people who are true sociopaths don't actually understand that they're sociopaths and probably believe that their perception of the world is the more normal one.

Sociopaths pick up on signals on what is appropriate and inappropriate and often pick up on the wrong ones as if they were true (for example we glorify sexual conquest but we understand what that means). At least that is what I've been told.

I don't exactly see where a sociopath would get the idea to tell people they are a sociopath.

Also I doubt he is trying to project himself as one. I've had a mother and trust me there are days where they look you over to see if you are a psycho. When I mentioned dungeons and dragons (I never played before then or had a interest to... I just mentioned it) I had the "Psycho lookover"

This is really just a joke thread in disguise. (well ok not in disguise... This is a joke thread, but some people arn't getting the idea)

[Lewpis]

So yeah, some of these concepts seem stupid to me but still...it's like how is a lack of guilt any different to a lack of fear? Guilt is often just a fear you'll be caught and suffer punishment, is it not?

No, you confuse guilt with regret, guilt is something non-sociopathic/non-narcassistic people feel that causes them to look back negatively on a situation due to the harm they caused another person strictly for that reason. Personally I can't stand sociopaths, they don't qualify as human in my view and thus I feel no guilt toward harming them, I may regret harming them though due to the penalty of the law, do you see the difference?

[kaijyuu]

Personally I can't stand sociopaths, they don't qualify as human in my view and thus I feel no guilt toward harming them

Isn't that kinda... hypocritical?


Seems a bit silly to define someone as human solely based on capacity for empathy.

[Lewpis]

Personally I can't stand sociopaths, they don't qualify as human in my view and thus I feel no guilt toward harming them

Isn't that kinda... hypocritical?


Seems a bit silly to define someone as human solely based on capacity for empathy.

Not at all, I care for people who care what exactly is hypocritical about it? I never said I always cared about everyone. More specifically I care about conceptual humans, i.e. people that exhibit the human condition entirely. My boundaries of designation aren't just to those who lack empathy, one can lack emotional empathy but replace it with a philosophical sense of justness in empathy that outlies selfish reasoning.

[Darvi]

'scool, I don't care about you either.

[Lewpis]

'scool, I don't care about you either.

Obviously, neutrally the way I would treat a sociopath is a little like a stray animal. I wouldn't go out of my way to hurt them unless I felt it justified. For instance if they attacked an innocent person I would do what I can to stop them and prevent that from happening. But if they were seemingly friendly to people or safe I would either leave them be or give them metaphorical petting to try to encourage that response a la Pavlov's experiments with dogs. You see the problem with treating them like a human is that they do not take it as a positive gesture, they take it as a sign of weakness, a sign that they have some sort of superiority over me. I am all for indulging these gestures but only if that leads towards a positive outcome in my view of it. I choose not to give them empathy, or let them affect my guilt because the gift of those sentiments would be lost to them, and subsequently they would be viewed as things to exploit which leads to an outcome that I find undesirable.

[kaijyuu]

Not at all, I care for people who care what exactly is hypocritical about it? I never said I always cared about everyone.

It's the "eye for an eye" mentality. Because someone does or embodies X bad thing, it's justified to throw X bad thing right back at them. That's hypocrisy.

More specifically I care about conceptual humans, i.e. people that exhibit the human condition entirely. My boundaries of designation aren't just to those who lack empathy, one can lack emotional empathy but replace it with a philosophical sense of justness in empathy that outlines selfish reasonings.

The "human condition" is a vague qualifier. I presume people can lack "exhibiting the entire human condition" in ways other than empathy. How about other handicaps, both physical and mental? Does lacking any part of the "human condition" remove their humanity, in your eyes?



I still respect sociopaths/psychopaths/etc as human beings. I might also respect their competence at something; ie, I might respect a really good swimmer for their swimming ability. I just wouldn't respect their character, as pretty much all their actions would (at best) embody "doing the right thing for the wrong reasons" in my eyes. Not worth getting angry or indignant over, just probably someone I wouldn't be friends with.

[Darvi]

It also implies he had the magic ability to measure people's empathic capacity.

[Leafsnail]

Don't a lot of doctors qualify as "sociopaths" because they have to shut off their empathy in order to perform effectively?  If anything I respect someone who shuts down their empathy and who still does good things more because they're capable of keeping their morals even without the assistance of empathy.

[Lewpis]

Don't a lot of doctors qualify as "sociopaths" because they have to shut off their empathy in order to perform effectively?  If anything I respect someone who shuts down their empathy and who still does good things more because they're capable of keeping their morals even without the assistance of empathy.

Not exactly, the ability to ignore empathy is different than the entire lack of empathy coinciding with a sense of superiority for having this void. A doctor does it because if their emotions interfere with their work it could cause troubles not only for them, but for the people they are treating. They do it out of non-selfish reasons, not out of narcissistic tendencies. That isn't to say that some doctors or people generally may "turn off" their empathy for selfish reasons, but it illustrates a counter example. Never the less the problem with sociopaths is not the actions they may go about doing, but the motives that go along with that action. For they may do one unselfish action but it is generally for a selfish motive, and they only propagate a series of self help that is in no way conducive to a healthy society at least in my view of it. I've also stated before if someone is mentally a sociopath but carries philosophical ideals that cause them to view selflessness as a virtue then I wouldn't consider them a sociopath, to me a sociopath is someone who exhibits both the mentality of a sociopath and has a lack care of depth to them that would illicit virtue in a sense of doing things for others.

Not at all, I care for people who care what exactly is hypocritical about it? I never said I always cared about everyone.

It's the "eye for an eye" mentality. Because someone does or embodies X bad thing, it's justified to throw X bad thing right back at them. That's hypocrisy.

More specifically I care about conceptual humans, i.e. people that exhibit the human condition entirely. My boundaries of designation aren't just to those who lack empathy, one can lack emotional empathy but replace it with a philosophical sense of justness in empathy that outlines selfish reasonings.

The "human condition" is a vague qualifier. I presume people can lack "exhibiting the entire human condition" in ways other than empathy. How about other handicaps, both physical and mental? Does lacking any part of the "human condition" remove their humanity, in your eyes?



I still respect sociopaths/psychopaths/etc as human beings. I might also respect their competence at something; ie, I might respect a really good swimmer for their swimming ability. I just wouldn't respect their character, as pretty much all their actions would (at best) embody "doing the right thing for the wrong reasons" in my eyes. Not worth getting angry or indignant over, just probably someone I wouldn't be friends with.

The mentally handicap still have all of the signs of the human condition. Vegetables do not... I fail to see how your view of my philosophy implies hypocrisy even in the slightest sense, I feel that positive outcomes should be encouraged. If a man attacks a child, and I attack the man for attacking the child, does that make me a hypocrite? Which is what you seem to be stating outright.

[kaijyuu]

Don't a lot of doctors qualify as "sociopaths" because they have to shut off their empathy in order to perform effectively?  If anything I respect someone who shuts down their empathy and who still does good things more because they're capable of keeping their morals even without the assistance of empathy.

I fail to see how empathy would get in the way of any doctor related duties. There are two situations where it might play a factor, but not be the problem:

1) Cracking under stress. Not the problem of them caring too much about their patient, just their inability to control their emotions.
2) Giving priority to certain individuals and violating triage. If anything, it's because they're giving unequal amounts of empathy to each of their patients. The problem is imbalance, not the existence of empathy.

The mentally handicap still have all of the signs of the human condition.

You'll have to define the "human condition" at this point. I'm not at all sure what exactly you're talking about.

If a man attacks a child, and I attack the man for attacking the child, does that make me a hypocrite? Which is what you seem to be stating outright.

Assuming you were attacking the man out of vengeance rather than protecting the child, absolutely.

[Lewpis]

Don't a lot of doctors qualify as "sociopaths" because they have to shut off their empathy in order to perform effectively?  If anything I respect someone who shuts down their empathy and who still does good things more because they're capable of keeping their morals even without the assistance of empathy.

If a man attacks a child, and I attack the man for attacking the child, does that make me a hypocrite? Which is what you seem to be stating outright.

Assuming you were attacking the man out of vengeance rather than protecting the child, absolutely.

When have I stated that there is anything wrong with vengeance, or punishment?

[Trapezohedron]

I don't care about sociopaths just as much as I don't care for "normal" humans. In other words, humans; sociopath, vegetable or no, are still humans, and I respect them as much as I respect "normal" humans.

You have to define what actually qualifies as an ordinary human, Lewpis.

[MorleyDev]

I'd rather someone do the right thing for the wrong reasons than the wrong thing for the right reasons.

And anybody can turn off their empathy for a time, when thought of as being in terms of empathy a sociopath is more regarded by an inability to turn it on.

Though a sociopathic doctor or surgeon or politician isn't going to always be a bad thing so long as their needs line up with the duties of the profession. If anything, I'd say that could make them more reliable than the "average" person.

It's like how you don't want a business partner to be in it for reasons of morality, because they can't be trusted to not drop it for random and ultimately futile reasons. You want a business partner to be in it for reasons of self-interest, because that way so long as you keep what you want them to do best for their self-interest you can rely on them to keep working with you. And if they stop, you know why: They got a better offer from somewhere else.