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[Hapah]

Urist: On your latest point, by line:

-Scroll of hallucination has a block and a protect component. He says he used it for the block. It seems straightforward enough to me.
-I wouldn't call that an OMGUS, but there are probably as many definitions as there are players.
a.) Correct.
b.) The no nightkill makes a certain degree of sense if there are still 2 allied scum (or a scum and an allied 3rd party) left. Using a roleblock to lock up a townie and then claiming the roleblock makes for a fairly effective frame. If the town then buys it and mislynches, an unprotected NK wins it for the scum, 2-2. The no nightkill allows the scum a very reasonable way to control the town's only weapon, and if they pull it off it cinches the game. Trying to pin down the team sizes is a dangerous game, though: I just wanted to put the information out there.
c.) Hrm....

PPE:

Native: On your latest post, by line:

-....What?
-See my comment to Urist above. I'm sure there are a million different definitions, but I'm with you on this one.
a.) Book put forward the theory that his scroll blocked you (it does 5? different things). Maybe he did block you, and you are the mafia killer. Maybe the maf isn't killing for the reason I outlined above, and Book's scroll did god-knows-what (you did say you lost a scroll, which is a potential effect...)
b.) I agree
c.) I think you can only use the Maf kill or an item, but not both. Mod can probably clear that up, though.

Another PPE (damnit people!):

Yeah, I'm not sure what he's going on about either.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Native is 100% lying when he says he hallucinated Flandre for the roleblock.

[Hapah]

I don't exactly think his reasoning is bulletproof, but what makes you so sure?

[Jack A T]

Well.

Native seriously claimed to have used a scroll of hallucination, a scroll with no blocking ability, to block Flandre.

I would like to quickly note the fact that in the game information spreadsheet, right above the scroll of hallucination is an item called the scroll of door creation.  The door creation scroll's effects perfectly match what Native is claiming, indicating he most likely misread the spreadsheet.  An understandable and easy mistake, considering the two items are adjacent.

I would also like to quickly note the fact that in PMs sent by the mod, the abilities of the items one owns are obvious and correct.

NativeForeigner's mistake indicates taking the item from the spreadsheet, not the PM.  This is not convenient, as it requires more effort to find one's item's effects.

So, why would NativeForeigner use the spreadsheet?  Why would NativeForeigner depend on the spreadsheet to know his item's abilities?  Simple: he never had the item in the first place.

And so my vote is sticking on Native.  Nice job.

[Jack A T]

EBWODP: Sorry to sound like I'm answering the question for Urist, there.  I wrote the post up before the previous three posts were posted.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Because the scroll of hallucination does not roleblock. It protects+randomizes. Door creation is the scroll that protects+roleblocks. Although, I can see how that's an easy mistake for a fakeclaimer to make, as they're right next to each other in the item list.

PPE: Ninja.

[Hapah]

....damned if you aren't right. Nice catch.

Unless the mod wants to step forward and say that he sent an incorrect PM, your number is up, NativeForeigner.

If the mod wants to confirm that he sent the correct PM (we don't need to know what he got, only confirm that the right message was sent. Human error is alive and well, after all), I'll get behind a shorten. Otherwise, I say we can just wait it out for another day.

[NativeForeigner]

I was on the edge about Flandre. I was doubting townhood, but I wasn't sure if it was just poor town play or scumplay, so I used the scroll of hallucination more for the block that for the protect.

What block?

Book claims to have blocked me.

SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM

You can't even get your blocks straight. I'm talking about blocking Flandre N1.

Then clarify next time.

And, looking back at it, yeah. It was a randomize, not a block. Whoops. Still targeted Flandre for the same-ish reason. Though instead of blocking like I misremembered, it was to prevent an intended target.

Well.

Native seriously claimed to have used a scroll of hallucination, a scroll with no blocking ability, to block Flandre.

I would like to quickly note the fact that in the game information spreadsheet, right above the scroll of hallucination is an item called the scroll of door creation.  The door creation scroll's effects perfectly match what Native is claiming, indicating he most likely misread the spreadsheet.  An understandable and easy mistake, considering the two items are adjacent.

I would also like to quickly note the fact that in PMs sent by the mod, the abilities of the items one owns are obvious and correct.

NativeForeigner's mistake indicates taking the item from the spreadsheet, not the PM.  This is not convenient, as it requires more effort to find one's item's effects.

So, why would NativeForeigner use the spreadsheet?  Why would NativeForeigner depend on the spreadsheet to know his item's abilities?  Simple: he never had the item in the first place.

And so my vote is sticking on Native.  Nice job.

I didn't use the spreadsheet, I was listing it from memory which was apparently faulty. I glanced at my PMs to see who I targeted, knew that the scroll of hallucination protected and did something else, my brain said "block" and I trusted it.

Because the scroll of hallucination does not roleblock. It protects+randomizes. Door creation is the scroll that protects+roleblocks. Although, I can see how that's an easy mistake for a fakeclaimer to make, as they're right next to each other in the item list.

See above. It was a case of misremembering.

....damned if you aren't right. Nice catch.

Unless the mod wants to step forward and say that he sent an incorrect PM, your number is up, NativeForeigner.

If the mod wants to confirm that he sent the correct PM (we don't need to know what he got, only confirm that the right message was sent. Human error is alive and well, after all), I'll get behind a shorten. Otherwise, I say we can just wait it out for another day.

It was a mistake, not a catch. No need to ask the mod, the PM he sent me was correct, I just derped and mixed up the scrolls abilities. Like you said, human error is alive and well. Don't you think it's a little hasty for a shorten? The second it looks like I'm good as gone and you vote me you ask for a shorten? I'll also note how you didn't actually shorten yourself, like you're looking for approval.

As for your other post, by line:

a) The way he phrased it makes it seem like he has control over what it does (especially given his confidence that I was blocked), so it couldn't have been that which took my scroll. The flavor suggested that it was stolen, anyway.

b) Noted.

c) Awaiting the mod to confirm.

Going after stupid things like this is making scum's job too easy.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I was on the edge about Flandre. I was doubting townhood, but I wasn't sure if it was just poor town play or scumplay, so I used the scroll of hallucination more for the block that for the protect.

What block?

Book claims to have blocked me.

SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM

You can't even get your blocks straight. I'm talking about blocking Flandre N1.

Then clarify next time.

See quote, emphasis mine. Perhaps the fact that the quote was about your choice of N1 action and had nothing at all to do with Bookthras would have given you a hint?

And, looking back at it, yeah. It was a randomize, not a block. Whoops. Still targeted Flandre for the same-ish reason. Though instead of blocking like I misremembered, it was to prevent an intended target.

Bullshit.

Going after stupid things like this is making scum's job too easy.

Hahahahahahahaha. Go ahead, appeal to fear. That's totally constructive and not a sad attempt to pry votes off you. Not that you're helping find scum at all anyway. Who do you suspect, why, why aren't you voting/questioning them, etc etc etc.

[NativeForeigner]

See quote, emphasis mine. Perhaps the fact that the quote was about your choice of N1 action and had nothing at all to do with Bookthras would have given you a hint?

Well shit, I guess I skimmed over that part of the quote.

And, looking back at it, yeah. It was a randomize, not a block. Whoops. Still targeted Flandre for the same-ish reason. Though instead of blocking like I misremembered, it was to prevent an intended target.

Bullshit.
[/quote]

Gonna go ahead and explain why it's bullshit or just sit there and look pretty?

Going after stupid things like this is making scum's job too easy.

Hahahahahahahaha. Go ahead, appeal to fear. That's totally constructive and not a sad attempt to pry votes off you. Not that you're helping find scum at all anyway. Who do you suspect, why, why aren't you voting/questioning them, etc etc etc.
[/quote]

So far town has lynched Dariush for making a grammar error, Mr. D for some reason or another when we had the chance to lynch scum instead, and is now on the verge of lynching me because I misremembered something and because Book says so. Town this game is uncharacteristically stupid.

I suspect Hapaph because of the hasty shorten request and because he's looking for everyone's approval before actually going through and voting for a shorten. I also suspect Book for trying to lynch me with what I consider weak (but not entirely unreasonable) reasoning. It's day 4, a case should have to stronger than what's against me to get someone lynched, but that's relying on town not being airheads that like to follow the leader. On that same note, Hapaph was slower to hop on and only did so when additional reasonings was brought up, which I take as a good sign, even if that additional reasoning wasn't very strong it's still better than Book's case alone. But only because he wasn't so quick to jump on before.

[NativeForeigner]

EBWODP: Sorry if that's sloppily-written. 24 hours without sleep here.

[Hapah]

(foreword: Maker's Mark is delicious)

Native: You're right, you're right. The shorten suggestion probably was a little premature.

You've got to admit though, what you said doesn't look pretty. If you were in my place, you'd be all over a slip like that too.

[Toaster]

Vote Count:

Jack A T: 
Bookthras: 
NativeForeigner: Bookthras, Urist Imiknorris, Jack A T, Hapah
Shakerag:
Urist Imiknorris:
Hapah: 

Not Voting: NativeForeigner, Shakerag

Day 4 will last until Thursday 5/10 at 11 PM EST.

c.) I think you can only use the Maf kill or an item, but not both. Mod can probably clear that up, though.

The Mafiakill is an action just like using an item is.  You cannot, for example, use a Mafiakill and a Scroll of Inspect in the same night.

[NativeForeigner]

(foreword: Maker's Mark is delicious)

Native: You're right, you're right. The shorten suggestion probably was a little premature.

You've got to admit though, what you said doesn't look pretty. If you were in my place, you'd be all over a slip like that too.

(Yes. Yes it is. Ever had their bourbon-seasoned cigars?)

Of course I'd be on the slip, just not "LYNCH HIM NOW" on it. I'd probably react to it like I reacted to Dariush's "slip", with an FOS and some questions.

[Bookthras]

Apologies for lack of posting, I was unexpectedly away yesterday. Catching up:


Shakerag:

I think Jack and UI are both likely town, maybe moreso Jack.

Why? In detail: why Jack more than Imiknorris? Why "town" rather than "not Tiruin's scumbuddy"?

Why have you not answered this question? Please do. Do you think Jack is town? Why?


Jack:

Jack AT: Mr.D was a brother to you, wanted you to win, so claimed and flipped, but you didn't even raise an eyebrow about it. Are you a brother as well? There's been quite a few claims, but I don't think I've seen one from you. Please state in full your class, alignment and win condition.

Bookthras: ...what.  There was no reason whatsoever for me to believe that Mr. D was my brother, beyond his vague "someone who is voting me is my brother" statement (note that he didn't claim to be my brother), until his flip.  I didn't raise an eyebrow before the flip because I wasn't on at that time.  I didn't raise an eyebrow about it after the flip because [...] it meant nothing, and all the relevant questions leading to it meaning nothing had been asked by the time I got to the thread.  And this...how does it indicate that I'm a Brother?  At all?  If that's not what indicates that I'm a Brother, what exactly does?
To answer your questions:
*While it would be amusing to have a Brother trying to make a Brother win, I am not a Brother.

Hmm.. true. He didn't claim he was your brother, merely a brother. That was misremembering on my part after my initial read; I thought he had claimed to be your brother. However, I think you are not town, for two reasons, one Toaster's, one yours:

a) "Brother wins if Jack wins" and "Jack is town" means "Brother wins if town wins", which is exactly the same as making him town to begin with. The notion of the 3rd-party being "town-ally" is frankly ludicrous and unbalanced in town's favour. It makes much more sense for him being brother to a different non-town 3rd party.

and b):

In fact, how does any of that warrant even a FoS?  This feels oddly flimsy, especially for this late in the game and from a veteran.

I find your reaction to the question excessive. Really? not even warrant a FoS? Oddly flimsy? Especially from me? Isn't that a bit overdefensive for a freaking FoS? Plus you immediately point me to look for 3rd parties elsewhere:

Finally, what are your thoughts on Hapah and Shakerag?  You're speaking as if you think they could be third parties, but you don't actually seem to be examining that possibility.  You're strongly pushing the conversation towards thoughts on Imiknorris and I, while your reasoning for your FoS on me is poor at best.

...and then you fail to follow through; you have not made a single effort to look or even mention 3rd parties, likely happy the topic died out. To answer: Yes, I thought anyone could be a third party, and didn't know whom, but I wasn't about to paint everybody blue (that's the same as pressuring no one, not useful), so I focused on the two scummier ones first. Makes sense, yes?

But it's true Hapah and Shake may be it. I'm pretty sure they're not Tiruin's buddy, but that doesn't make them town, so they should also be questioned. Hapah I get a pretty strong town read from, but Shake has failed to answer questions and been a bit cagey.


Jack: Who do you think is 3rd party and why? If you were a survivor, would you claim it at this point? Other than your vote target, who is scum and why? What's your read on Shakerag? If there was a cult, which two people would you think belong to it at this point based on their interactions?


Imiknorris, Native: do you think being a brother to a townie is a possibility? If there was a cult, who do you think is likely to be in it?