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[zombie urist]

It would have taken 2 votes since you voted for Tiruin.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Dariush: Shakerag
IronyOwl: ToonyMan
Orangebottle: zombie urist
ToonyMan: Darvi, Dariush, Orangebottle


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday

[Jokerman-EXE]

Sorry for the absence, all. I don't really have an excuse [strike]except that I was stalking Powder Miner[/strike] wait what back to the game.

My vote goes to Shakerag!

PFP:  Re-read finished; Dariush gets my vote.

A vote switch several hours from the day end without any argumentation. Explain, Shakerag.

Shakerag:

PFP:  Re-read finished; Dariush gets my vote. 

Could this have waited until you were in a position to post, or were you afraid that the day would end without you getting a word in? We'll need more than this to be satisfied.

Wanted to make sure I got it in before day end.  Didn't know how busy I'd be later. 

Basically, he's acting fairly passive and responded poorly to Toony's line of questioning in my opinion.  If he were not scum, he'd shrug off what Toony was saying, not OMGUS him.

Way to not read anything after that post, Dariush.  In addition to my reasons from yesterday, I'll add on that I can't bring myself to believe that ToonyMan is D1 bussing scum, so your continued crusade against ToonyMan feels even more like you're trying to get him mislynched because he's on to you.  Oh, and, you know, trying to start off D2 by voting me and somehow ignoring that I did post reasons for voting you before the end of D1. 

From my perspective, it looks like ToonyMan is shaking quite a few trees, and that's making some people very nervous.  I'm inclined to think that Darvi isn't scum for the same reasons I think ToonyMan isn't scum, but there's always the possibility that Darvi could be 3rd party. 

This post strikes me as sort of a delayed OMGUS mixed with a bit of chainsaw defense. Dariush is drilling at you and Toony (mainly Toony), and you not only throw the spotlight back at him, you also come to Toonyman's defense - a fact which, I'm sure everyone noticed, Toony goes on without acknowledging. If Toony were shaking a few trees, then why wouldn't he point out your obvious defense of him?

Pressure getting to be too much, Toony? The scumtells that have been presented against you don't strike me as condemning, but your surly, defensive replies sure do. I'm thinking you and Shakerag are on a team together.

[ToonyMan]

I acknowledge Shakerag here.

[Jokerman-EXE]

That's your entire address to Shakerag? That's all you have to show, after all the ways that he defended you, and the attacks he had on Dariush?

You're right, there's no way you could be scumbuddies.

[IronyOwl]

Toony:

Alright, so, lurking past the deadline was a major fuckup on my part. Lurking afterwards wasn't good either, but I've had a lot to catch up on.

Does...does that mean you did it on purpose?  You lurked through a tie vote for no reason!

No, but I discovered the day had ended as I was going to read and post something. Derp.

Completely neutral. We're both good players, and I have no particular reason to think Tiruin does some retarded pattern instead of just answering the question.

What an incredibly passive answer.  The two quotes I made (originally here) show a clear defense you had of Tiruin and also that he mentions you as a scum buddy he would want.  I think it's a very clear connection.

I stand by my defense of Tiruin; he's naturally squishy and uncertain, and reacting like he did you appearing insulted seems pretty par the course for what I know about him. It also didn't seem overtly manipulative, even knowing he was scum at the time.

As for mentioning that he'd like me as a scumbuddy, that's irrelevant. What he'd like and what he got have no impact on each other, nor does what he'd like and what I'm doing.

Need I remind you Darvi will continue posting in other parts of the board but not here for the weekend (unless he read this ).  He's probably town but I hate how he plays.

I think that was an entirely valid response, though. Can you explain how it wasn't wine, or at least useless to make an unsubstantiated claim regarding?

Or was it just something about posting a picture that pissed you off?

Also, Dariush is seeming unusually townlike. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Holy fuck no.  If he's actually town I want to smack him.

I dunno. He hasn't been doing as much actual hunting as he probably should be, but he's seemed unusually lucid and rational when he does respond. His first post, for instance, contained entirely useful and complete answers. He didn't even rage excessively at you and admitted he was partially wrong (or at least had glossed over a part he felt irrelevant) not long after, and has been engaged in decent scumhunting ever since.

And third parties are the only real threat to competent players.

Ah, you are reaction fishing. Perhaps you should do something useful instead.

I don't understand what you mean here.  Are you confused because of Dariush's out-of-context quoting of me or am I confused on what you're saying?

I had no idea what you were trying to say; scum aren't dangerous, but third parties are? Huh? So I assumed you were trying to goad scum into outing themselves by insulting them.

What were you trying to say?

Yeah I believe Zombie Urist is likely town now as well because of his arguments yesterday(game-time) at the end.

Go on.

I already have.  It's like you don't care.

I think I glossed that over, since I remember reading it but looked back on it as more ToonyMan Proving He's Town By Spewing Wine.

However, what about it made you think zombie urist was more townlike and not just less busy or wordier? And why didn't you mention this when you made your decision?



Shakerag:

Shakerag: You tied the vote. Why did you tie the vote.

I voted who I thought was scum.  I didn't bother to count votes before that.  Since I really don't want to change my vote, and there are no more extensions, it's shit or get off the pot time for everyone.

Rediscovered this gem. What exactly were you saying here; that everyone else needed to break this tie because you certainly weren't going to? Who, in order, did you consider the best to worst candidates for lynch at the time?

[Shakerag]

Shakerag: Care to elaborate on why you don't think Toonyman is D1 bussing scum?

-I don't feel like I'm getting a scum vibe from him.  If he is scum, he's one of the most convincing scum I've ever seen. 
-If he were scum, coming in that close to day end to break a tie and bus his partner just seems too unbelievable.  If true, that's a really, really, really ballsy move. 
-If he were scum, it seems more likely that he would have either let the votes stay tied (because Tiruin and ZU were his scumbuddies?) or he would have tried to go for a mislynch on ZU
-People voting ToonyMan are people that I've felt suspicious about.  Which leads me to feel that after seeing ToonyMan hang scum D1, the scumteam (and possibly 3rd-party player(s)) are trying to dogpile on him

Looking at the reasons for ToonyMan being scum versus the reasons for ToonyMan being town ... I feel that there are a lot more hoops to jump through to conclude he's scum, and I'm siding with Occam's Razor on this one. 

Even disregarding the obvious question 'How the fuck do you know what I would and wouldn't do?': come here and tell me to my face that what Toony is doing, especially on D2, is not scummy. Especially the whole implying he's town. Actually wait, do answer that question. How the fuck do you know what I would and wouldn't do?

Okay, I don't feel what ToonyMan is doing is scummy.  Happy?  Also, I've read many more games here than what I've played in.  So I've seen both your playstyle and what other people think of your playstyle. 

Shakerag:

Way to not read anything after that post, Dariush.  In addition to my reasons from yesterday, I'll add on that I can't bring myself to believe that ToonyMan is D1 bussing scum, so your continued crusade against ToonyMan feels even more like you're trying to get him mislynched because he's on to you.  Oh, and, you know, trying to start off D2 by voting me and somehow ignoring that I did post reasons for voting you before the end of D1. 

So you don't see anything Toony is doing that's scummy in its own right?

From my perspective, it looks like ToonyMan is shaking quite a few trees, and that's making some people very nervous.  I'm inclined to think that Darvi isn't scum for the same reasons I think ToonyMan isn't scum, but there's always the possibility that Darvi could be 3rd party. 

What makes you suspicious of Darvi? Why might Darvi be third party but Flandre or ToonyMan not?

Off of the top of my head I don't recall anything that stood out to me as terribly scummy from ToonyMan.  If you have something specific in mind I'll give you my opinion on it.

My suspicions on Darvi are that he's been kind of lurky since replacing in, and not producing a lot of content.  Then, on D2, jumps on ToonyMan right away and throws little other than wine accusations at him.  Since Darvi voted for Tiruin D1, I can't believe he's scum, but going after someone I think is strongly town like he did makes me think he's quite possibly 3rd party then.

This post strikes me as sort of a delayed OMGUS mixed with a bit of chainsaw defense. Dariush is drilling at you and Toony (mainly Toony), and you not only throw the spotlight back at him, you also come to Toonyman's defense - a fact which, I'm sure everyone noticed, Toony goes on without acknowledging. If Toony were shaking a few trees, then why wouldn't he point out your obvious defense of him?

You could look at it that way.  Or you could see that it's a continuation of me going after Dariush from D1, Dariush shooting a delayed OMGUS at *me*, and then I attack scum for trying to undermine someone I think is decidely town.  Why does ToonyMan need to address that I'm defending him?  Does that help catch scum? 



IronyOwl:  I'll get to your latest post this afternoon.

[Shakerag]

Shakerag:

Shakerag: You tied the vote. Why did you tie the vote.

I voted who I thought was scum.  I didn't bother to count votes before that.  Since I really don't want to change my vote, and there are no more extensions, it's shit or get off the pot time for everyone.

Rediscovered this gem. What exactly were you saying here; that everyone else needed to break this tie because you certainly weren't going to? Who, in order, did you consider the best to worst candidates for lynch at the time?

As I stated above, I voted who I felt was scum at the time.  I wasn't going to vote for someone if I wasn't confident enough that they were scum just to avoid a tie.  I wanted those who weren't voting to show some involvement in this game (even if it was to just come forward and say no lynch) and for those who seemed to be waffling about thier pick to have some conviction.  It just felt like a lot of people were still flailing about uncertainly as the end of day drew closer, which annoyed me. 

Looking back ... Obviously I thought Dariush was at the top, and I'm remembering I didn't have a strong second pick at that time, as my suspicions about some of the other players were founded only in some rather far-fetched theories. 

[Darvi]

I'm inclined to think that Darvi isn't scum for the same reasons I think ToonyMan isn't scum, but there's always the possibility that Darvi could be 3rd party. 

Why do you think I am 3rd party instead of town who's concerned about Toony's blatant buddying and wine?
 
 

Darvi:
Really? That's it? >:|

What's what?

Need I remind you Darvi will continue posting in other parts of the board but not here for the weekend (unless he read this ).  He's probably town but I hate how he plays.

I don't play during weekends. I also only make one post per game per day, if possible.
 
 If you don't like it, then, using your words, fuck you.

Darvi: Please explain in detail your reasons for voting Tiruin yesterday.

Right here.
 
 I know it's not much but I didn't have much time to read the game at that point.



As I keep reading, Toony is just busy with aggressively defending his POV, beyond what can even remotely pass as sensible. I've been intentionally trying to get reactions out of him, but nobody who wants to stay alive behaves this stupidly. Methinks he wants to get lynched.

Shakerag on the other hand defends him with "I don't fell like he's scum" and "Scum would never behave that way". Yeah, I distinctively remember a game where scum nightkilled their buddies, so your argument is not only fucked, but outright *insert NSFW analogy*.

Shakerag, why do you bring up 3rd parties when town has no reason to be concerned about them when there's no evidence for their existence?
 

[ToonyMan]

That's your entire address to Shakerag? That's all you have to show, after all the ways that he defended you, and the attacks he had on Dariush?
You're right, there's no way you could be scumbuddies.

Oh, so I guess giving evidence to refute your claim means you won't accept it?  That sure sucks.

Completely neutral. We're both good players, and I have no particular reason to think Tiruin does some retarded pattern instead of just answering the question.

What an incredibly passive answer.  The two quotes I made (originally here) show a clear defense you had of Tiruin and also that he mentions you as a scum buddy he would want.  I think it's a very clear connection.

I stand by my defense of Tiruin; he's naturally squishy and uncertain, and reacting like he did you appearing insulted seems pretty par the course for what I know about him. It also didn't seem overtly manipulative, even knowing he was scum at the time.

You do know this would be the exact same case with Shakerag, who you seem to be attacking because of it.

Need I remind you Darvi will continue posting in other parts of the board but not here for the weekend (unless he read this ).  He's probably town but I hate how he plays.

I think that was an entirely valid response, though. Can you explain how it wasn't wine, or at least useless to make an unsubstantiated claim regarding?

I've already explained this (might as well be unexplained) a hundred times.  Scum would not do what I did.  There.  Is.  No.  Way.

Also, Dariush is seeming unusually townlike. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Holy fuck no.  If he's actually town I want to smack him.

I dunno. He hasn't been doing as much actual hunting as he probably should be, but he's seemed unusually lucid and rational when he does respond. His first post, for instance, contained entirely useful and complete answers. He didn't even rage excessively at you and admitted he was partially wrong (or at least had glossed over a part he felt irrelevant) not long after, and has been engaged in decent scumhunting ever since.

Any comments on his "too townie" case on me?  Which is fallacious I might add.

And third parties are the only real threat to competent players.

Ah, you are reaction fishing. Perhaps you should do something useful instead.

I don't understand what you mean here.  Are you confused because of Dariush's out-of-context quoting of me or am I confused on what you're saying?

I had no idea what you were trying to say; scum aren't dangerous, but third parties are? Huh? So I assumed you were trying to goad scum into outing themselves by insulting them.

What were you trying to say?

Any idiot scum that would lynch Tiruin in that situation would be no threat to even slightly dumbass town.  Third-party not only are more likely but more dangerous in this case!

Yeah I believe Zombie Urist is likely town now as well because of his arguments yesterday(game-time) at the end.

Go on.

I already have.  It's like you don't care.

I think I glossed that over, since I remember reading it but looked back on it as more ToonyMan Proving He's Town By Spewing Wine.
However, what about it made you think zombie urist was more townlike and not just less busy or wordier? And why didn't you mention this when you made your decision?

As I said, I weighed the two during the end of the day and made what I felt was the better choice.  I've gave after-thoughts on my thinking but I'm getting tired...go back and read it again.

-I don't feel like I'm getting a scum vibe from him.  If he is scum, he's one of the most convincing scum I've ever seen. 
-If he were scum, coming in that close to day end to break a tie and bus his partner just seems too unbelievable.  If true, that's a really, really, really ballsy move. 
-If he were scum, it seems more likely that he would have either let the votes stay tied (because Tiruin and ZU were his scumbuddies?) or he would have tried to go for a mislynch on ZU
-People voting ToonyMan are people that I've felt suspicious about.  Which leads me to feel that after seeing ToonyMan hang scum D1, the scumteam (and possibly 3rd-party player(s)) are trying to dogpile on him

FUCKING EXACTLY.  MVP here.

I don't play during weekends. I also only make one post per game per day, if possible.
 If you don't like it, then, using your words, fuck you.

"I purposely play shitty!"

Shakerag on the other hand defends him with "I don't fell like he's scum" and "Scum would never behave that way". Yeah, I distinctively remember a game where scum nightkilled their buddies, so your argument is not only fucked, but outright *insert NSFW analogy*.

In this same situation?!  You can't just say something vague when it doesn't even hold here.

[Shakerag]

I'm inclined to think that Darvi isn't scum for the same reasons I think ToonyMan isn't scum, but there's always the possibility that Darvi could be 3rd party. 

Why do you think I am 3rd party instead of town who's concerned about Toony's blatant buddying and wine?

I already gave my reasons in my response to IronyOwl.  You seem to have either not read my earlier post, or are somehow indirectly implying my response was not satisfactory.  Which?

As I keep reading, Toony is just busy with aggressively defending his POV, beyond what can even remotely pass as sensible. I've been intentionally trying to get reactions out of him, but nobody who wants to stay alive behaves this stupidly. Methinks he wants to get lynched.

I'm sorry, Darvi, but I'll have to humbly request that you talk down to my level and use small words to explain your line of thinking, because it is obviously of a caliber that exceeds my ability to follow. 

Shakerag on the other hand defends him with "I don't fell like he's scum" and "Scum would never behave that way". Yeah, I distinctively remember a game where scum nightkilled their buddies, so your argument is not only fucked, but outright *insert NSFW analogy*.

So ... you're dismissing my arguement by bringing up one game in which scum did something outlandish.  And not even correctly summarizing my points either.  I'm saying that the chance ToonyMan is scum is slim enough to be not realistically worth considering at this point.  If Bay12 was full to the brim of games where scumteams did crazy-ass gambits day in and day out, then I might conceed you have a point.  However, I do not believe this to be the case, and it is a much simpler (and much more probable) explanation that ToonyMan isn't scum. 

Your logic seems to dictate that something that has happened once should be given as equal consideration as something that has happened many more times.  I can only assume that you must be a compulsive gambler from this mindset.  1-800-BETS-OFF, Darvi.

Shakerag, why do you bring up 3rd parties when town has no reason to be concerned about them when there's no evidence for their existence?

Maybe because every single other Supernatural has had hostile 3rd parties in them?  You really hate statistics, don't you?

As long as we're on the topic of Darvi considering every outlandish possibility equally, why did you think that if ToonyMan and I are "buddying" we must be both be scum, as opposed to town-aligned masons?  (Not that this is the case, but provided as a counter example)

Actually ... re-reading that last line of yours ... "town has no reason to be concerned" ... "no evidence for thier existence" ... you allllllmost sound like you want everyone to not even think about 3rd parties, Darvi. 

[Reverie]

PFP: I will not be able to participate until sometime tomorrow around noon, EST. My apologies.

[Powder Miner]

Scum would not do what I did.[/b]  There.  Is.  No.  Way.

I'm beginning to feel intoxicated. It's illegal to give wine to people who are underage, Toony, and you're handing it out to everyone here.

In other news, I like how Shakerag is your "Most Valuable Player" Toonyman.


Shakerag.
Why is the chance ToonyMan is scum small enough to not be considered?
Are you saying that despite his wine and looking scummy to people, he's super townie?
Are you saying that because he was one of the people voting for someone who was scum on D1, he and only he shouldn't be lynched?
Are you saying because he supposedly lynched scum (Remember folks, it takes more than one guy to put someone on a noose) and promptly touted it everywhere, it's not bussing at all AND GODDANGIT HE'S CONFIRMED TOWN AND ANYONE VOTING FOR HIM IS SCUM!!!!1! Is that what you're saying?
Why would he be more important to lynch than other people who voted for Tiruin? He was one voter for Tiruin. Your argument that this somehow makes him town and voters for him scum doesn't stand up to muster. In fact, it convinces me that ToonyMan is scum. Toony's wine that scum never bus and that he was the hero of town and that any scum bussing like that is uber-horrible doesn't help either.

[Dariush]

Okay, I don't feel what ToonyMan is doing is scummy.  Happy?

What. So, you mean the whole 'oh god I'm so town I have no idea why scum didn't nightkill me blahblahblah', among other stuff I can't recall from the top of my head doesn't raise the slightest suspicion in you?

Also, nice job defending WIFOMer with WIFOM. Scum would never behave that way, my ass.

""Where are you getting these ideas from?""  It's probably because you don't know how to read question marks actually.
snip
This means god damn nothing.  What are you even saying?  Fuck you idiot.

Fun observation: when Toony makes a rhetorical question, it's a sacred truth. When Dariush does the same, it's mad ramblings. Go hang, you fucking hypocrite.

Because one of us could still be third-party, which isn't ideal.  I'm not ignoring the bussing and I in fact completely deny it because it's fucking stupid.

Who the hell cares about what's ideal or not? In an ideal game there would be no mislynches and the doctor would always correctly predict the NK. Does that happen often? No. Go fuck yourself.

Also, note how I didn't actually accuse you of bussing. We know that Tiruin was scum and not third party, so your argument makes no fucking sense. You are just putting words you know are true into my mouth. But now that you mention it, yes, you indeed bussed your buddy Tiruin.

Not really.  You can't edit your posts remember?

And what exactly prevented you from thinking about the contents before pressing 'post'?

I don't know what third-party they could be, it's just a possibility that shouldn't be over-looked.

You're backtracking, assfucker. Answer the damn question.

[Darvi]

I already gave my reasons in my response to IronyOwl.  You seem to have either not read my earlier post, or are somehow indirectly implying my response was not satisfactory.  Which?

You answered why you didn't think Toony to be 3rd party. You didn't answer why you thought me to be one.

I'm sorry, Darvi, but I'll have to humbly request that you talk down to my level and use small words to explain your line of thinking, because it is obviously of a caliber that exceeds my ability to follow. 

He keeps insisting on wine even though plenty people call him out on it. Nobody intentionally keeps up a scumtell of this size unless they want to be lynched.

So ... you're dismissing my arguement by bringing up one game in which scum did something outlandish.  And not even correctly summarizing my points either.  I'm saying that the chance ToonyMan is scum is slim enough to be not realistically worth considering at this point.  If Bay12 was full to the brim of games where scumteams did crazy-ass gambits day in and day out, then I might conceed you have a point.  However, I do not believe this to be the case, and it is a much simpler (and much more probable) explanation that ToonyMan isn't scum. 

Because scumm killing off their less-skilled teammates early on to make themselves look town is such a crazy thing that it could never possibly happen.[/snark]

Your logic seems to dictate that something that has happened once should be given as equal consideration as something that has happened many more times.  I can only assume that you must be a compulsive gambler from this mindset.  1-800-BETS-OFF, Darvi.

No. But your logic apparently dictates that something that you wouldn't consider doing is something that isn't worth considering. I am far from a gambler, but I don't dismiss a theory that would both explain Toony's tie-breaker and his D2 behaviour easily without having to factor in additional variables.

Maybe because every single other Supernatural has had hostile 3rd parties in them?  You really hate statistics, don't you?

Lessee which hostile 3rd parties there are:
-SKs. No double-kill last night, so not likely to be true.
-Cult. Game this size? Nigh-impossible.
-Brothers or allies. Irrelevant, as they aren't on our lynch-list.
-Lyncher and assassins. I don't know if assassins have kills, but if they do, see SKs. Otherwise, they are still not on our lynch-list.

As long as we're on the topic of Darvi considering every outlandish possibility equally, why did you think that if ToonyMan and I are "buddying" we must be both be scum, as opposed to town-aligned masons?  (Not that this is the case, but provided as a counter example)

Lolnotreadingmypost.

Actually ... re-reading that last line of yours ... "town has no reason to be concerned" ... "no evidence for thier existence" ... you allllllmost sound like you want everyone to not even think about 3rd parties, Darvi. 

It allllllllmost sounds as if you wanted to frame me~
 
 The only ones who are concerned about 3rd parties so early are scum because those are the only people whose agenda they don't know. And hence are less likely to predict. Town should only be worried about mafia (unless the game explicitly mentions their absence) because they know that they're a real threat.

Oh, so I guess giving evidence to refute your claim means you won't accept it?  That sure sucks.

If you call that evidence I'm glad you don't work in forensics.

Scum would not do what I did.  There.  Is.  No.  Way.

Spoiler: Since you like wine so much (click to show/hide)

Any idiot scum that would lynch Tiruin in that situation would be no threat to even slightly dumbass town.  Third-party not only are more likely but more dangerous in this case!

Why would a 3rd party lynching scum be more dangerous than a 3rd party lynching town? Because that's what "in this case" seems to mean.

FUCKING EXACTLY.  MVP here.

HE SAYS I'M TOWN! ALL HAIL TO THE KING BABY!

"I purposely play shitty!"

"I don't have any real arguments so I just insult his activity instead! Also I'm a dick."

In this same situation?!  You can't just say something vague when it doesn't even hold here.

I don't see how it wouldn't hold. This isn't Gensokyo, there have been busses around here since I don't know when.