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Author Topic: Einsteinian Roulette (Original Thread: Rules, Armory, Misson archive 1-11)  (Read 3990018 times)

Lenglon

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18510 on: January 31, 2014, 10:18:40 pm »

((Yes, welcome to fluorine chemistry. try Dioxygen Diflouride whenever you find ClF3 boring.))
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18511 on: January 31, 2014, 11:43:39 pm »

Quote
((@RC: I'd like to point out that sods are smart. They have a problem with situations they weren't designed for. They have a problem with situations they have no orders to account for.
They can use any tactics they have been taught.
So the only way you could improve a sod's mind is to give him imagination.))
((Are they smart though? From what I've seen, they don't have any sort of initiative or tactical insight, just mindless obedience. Their commanders usually provide any sort of plans or guidance. But if the Doc can safely make them all smart enough (without dangerous side effects) not to need a commander, then it'll still be convenient to have one sod to give orders to.))
((Remember when they were fighting that one Something de Bergerac guy, in that big armor stuff? When they used advanced tactics to disable the Something of War? Seems like something you would remember, RC.))
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kisame12794

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18512 on: January 31, 2014, 11:53:06 pm »

((They still need orders. They did that because that's what they're trained to do. They were probably ordered to guard the facility, and subdue any threats, using lethal force if the threat is high enough. How they did that was up to their assement of the tactical situation. So, no, give them a book and they'll stare blankly at it, give them a gun and tell them to take that hill, they'll hand it to you on a silver platter, or die trying.))
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18513 on: February 01, 2014, 12:03:51 am »

((Actually, if you give them a book, they'll probably start trying to determine how best to use it as a bludgeon.

But if I recall correctly, the question wasn't one of giving them initiative, it was one of if they could handle complex tactical situations. Ironically, giving them simple orders is probably the best way to do this; something like "Take that hill" or "Guard this building" are hard to screw up, unless maybe someone slips past you, but more complex orders may have holes or contradictions.))
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smurfingtonthethird

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18514 on: February 01, 2014, 12:39:12 am »

((On a side-note, taking a hill covered in artillery emplacements with just infantry is hard as shit. Unless you have grenades. Lots of grenades.))
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18515 on: February 01, 2014, 01:02:31 am »

((On a side-note, taking a hill covered in artillery emplacements with just infantry is hard as shit. Unless you have grenades. Lots of grenades.))
((Or unless your infantry's handheld weapons outrange artillery. Or unless they can punch clean through the hill.))
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18516 on: February 01, 2014, 05:55:16 am »

((From what I've read, Hephaestus has a anti-orbit defense system. Apparently it should keep enemy battleships and cruisers at bay. I thought the laser grid could take out smaller ships, but apparently not. Defense forces should focus on keeping the AO system online, otherwise the ships can get in closer to drop off heavier equipment and larger amounts of infantry.))

((Yes, they can. The laser batteries can shoot down just about anything, even nuclear missiles. But there will be quite a few droppods incoming, so even if we nuke the landing party as the drop we won't get them all. Defending the batteries is indeed important, but because we need to cover a whole damn planet we can't just reinforce them all. Steve will take care of some ground defenses for the batteries, but the one battery near our base (and any extra ones we build with RU) we need to defend ourselves. And a problem is: static defenses in one place can't defend somewhere else, which is why I'd prefer something like Predator drones to act as mobile artillery, instead of placing lots of stationary stuff all over the planet. They can land wherever they want, so our defense plan is as such: place some mines at the landing sites where our AA is the weakest (UWM knows where we are weakest, so they might try to land there). Use AA and nukes to take out as many incoming pods as we can. However, we actively (as in, with player characters) defend only this base, and the batteries covering us (so they can't drop in reinforcements on our heads).

I think it'll be better to defend 'close to home' so to speak, because as pointed out
((On a side-note, taking a hill covered in artillery emplacements with just infantry is hard as shit. Unless you have grenades. Lots of grenades.))
((Or unless your infantry's handheld weapons outrange artillery. Or unless they can punch clean through the hill.))
So if they have stuff like LESHO rifles, then it'll devolve into an artillery fight. And we would probably win that, but take quite some damage in the process. However, if we try to wait until they are a bit closer, then their long-range firepower won't be nearly as effective.

But yeah, if I were the UWM commander, then I'd drop in force in something like 2-3 places, and focus on creating a safe LZ for getting in heavy equipment. But building artillery, lasers and bunkers everywhere they could possibly land is too expensive, and moving our troops to where they land would leave them rather exposed and vulnerable (e.g. exposed to orbital bombardment). And since this base is the 'central core' of the planet anyways, we just need to defend this place to come out on top. And they can't destroy it all, they want their stuff intact (and they think this is  worker rebellion, so if all goes well by the time they know they're in over their head we've beaten them, after which we quickly move in and take their ships with a boarding action).

Quote
((Remember when they were fighting that one Something de Bergerac guy, in that big armor stuff? When they used advanced tactics to disable the Something of War? Seems like something you would remember, RC.))
((Yeah, no. There's a difference between being trained for certain situations (when faced with 1 battlesuit, do X, if you have that weapon, do Y, if Avatar, use technique Z) and tactical insight (take that building on the hill. It's surrounded by small houses, like a favela. Avoid civilian casualties, but beware of radicals hiding among them). You can train them in certain techniques and fighting styles, but effective commanding takes creative insight, something sods are notoriously bad with.))
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smurfingtonthethird

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18517 on: February 01, 2014, 06:26:22 am »

((... How big is Hephaestus? Don't we have the population and resources of the planet? We should be able to train at least a infantry battalion up in a year. Viva la revolution! Also, smack me if I'm wrong, but a name like Hephaestus makes me think it is a Forge World. Which means lots of military factories. Which means we should be able to shit out a LOT of heavy armor and weapons within a year for ARM and workers alike, plus [if our tech be advanced enough] at least some automated defense systems, at most automated robotic mechanised armor. And lots of it.))

((We should also set up a few quick response teams to plug the holes in our defenses should infantry make groundfall. We'll lose straight up  if they bring their biggest guns [The Baneblade from W40k comes to mind]. It'd crush morale like a watermelon. We might even set up a fake weak point, which is conveniently good for landing mechanised armour and near the base, so we can ambush them. Maybe even steal a few pieces of armor or even a drop ship :D.))
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18518 on: February 01, 2014, 06:36:52 am »

((... How big is Hephaestus? Don't we have the population and resources of the planet? We should be able to train at least a infantry battalion up in a year. Viva la revolution! Also, smack me if I'm wrong, but a name like Hephaestus makes me think it is a Forge World. Which means lots of military factories. Which means we should be able to shit out a LOT of heavy armor and weapons within a year for ARM and workers alike, plus [if our tech be advanced enough] at least some automated defense systems, at most automated robotic mechanised armor. And lots of it.))

((We should also set up a few quick response teams to plug the holes in our defenses should infantry make groundfall. We'll lose straight up  if they bring their biggest guns [The Baneblade from W40k comes to mind]. It'd crush morale like a watermelon. We might even set up a fake weak point, which is conveniently good for landing mechanised armour and near the base, so we can ambush them. Maybe even steal a few pieces of armor or even a drop ship :D.))

((Not sure how big. And yes, we (as in, ARM) can build a crapton, but we (as in, the players) only get to spend 1000 RU. Steve the computer will use most of the planet's resources to build stuff, we (the players, not ARM as a whole) only need to really focus on defending our base. Really, these 1000 RU are the 'left-over' resources after Steve builds everything he needs.
You want a tank? Sure, but ASK PW FOR RU COST, then propose it in this thread. So not 'hey, we could build mechanised computer-controlled tanks' but 'we build this thing. It has X weapon, Y gadget, threads/wheels/..., all the other design specs, and it costs this much RU'. So, in short: be concrete.))

Quote
a few quick response teams
((We have the Mobile Reserve team, which is this, and a few shuttles with guns on 'em. Ask Sean about the shuttles. And yes, we already have weak points, and as I said, we'll mine those and provide some defences. Besides, Things like Baneblades are cool and stuff, but remember that 40K isn't very realistic. Giant heavy vehicles like that are just an invitation for guided missiles to destroy it. And for the price of 1 such tank you can have a whole lot guided death to take it out, and have some to spare.

A more specific plan for base defense I can only do once I kniw what we'll be spending our resources on.))
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 06:38:33 am by Radio Controlled »
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smurfingtonthethird

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18519 on: February 01, 2014, 07:06:56 am »

((Stupid underlining AI guidelines. Can we order infantry squads and such, or just weapons and vehicles?))

((Also, Baneblades are crazy immortal. You'd need thousands to take out one Baneblade.))
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Lenglon

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18520 on: February 01, 2014, 07:09:25 am »

((They're also crazy-expensive. Again, so what if it takes 1000 hits to kill when it costs over 10000x as much?))
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smurfingtonthethird

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18521 on: February 01, 2014, 07:18:40 am »

((They're on par with an Imperial Titan. Titans have giant lascannon arms.))
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PyroDesu

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18522 on: February 01, 2014, 07:27:40 am »

((Stupid underlining AI guidelines. Can we order infantry squads and such, or just weapons and vehicles?))

((Also, Baneblades are crazy immortal. You'd need thousands to take out one Baneblade.))
((They're on par with an Imperial Titan. Titans have giant lascannon arms.))

((This game does not run on WH40k physics. Look at the Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte for issues with super-heavy tanks. Still not as bad as giant humanoid mecha, but pretty bad nonetheless.

More is not always better, in some cases. Even having 5 Panzer VIII Maus, which was a horrible design, would have been better than a single Ratte, I think. And don't get me started on the Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster. That thing would've been heavier than your Baneblade (and possibly more effective, it was more artillery than tank, still a worse design in general than any normal self-propelled artillery).))
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 07:40:43 am by PyroDesu »
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smurfingtonthethird

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18523 on: February 01, 2014, 07:42:38 am »

((Curse our love of air support!))

((On previous note, can I hire infantry squads?))
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PyroDesu

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Combat Teams
« Reply #18524 on: February 01, 2014, 07:45:55 am »

((Curse our love of air support!))

((On previous note, can I hire infantry squads?))

((You, no. Miyamoto, yes.

And it's less 'Hire' infantry than 'Manufacture' infantry.))
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