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Author Topic: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)  (Read 11722 times)

Trapezohedron

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2012, 10:16:46 pm »

How exactly does Daylight Savings Time work, and what are its benefits?
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Heliman

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2012, 10:17:05 pm »

(iv) It has DNA
Incorrect. I'm pretty sure that many bacteria use RNA as their primary memory component. Also. Mono Lake Bacteria use an alternative genetic structure that can use arsenic instead of Phosphorus.

How exactly does Daylight Savings Time work, and what are its benefits?
Daylight savings time is the practice of advancing or halting the clock at certain times of the year in order to increase the amount daylight in the evenings.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 10:23:21 pm by Heliman »
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Bauglir

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2012, 10:23:01 pm »

Don't think so (about bacteria and RNA storage), but viruses do it all the time, and the only times they get defined as not alive are when people try to arbitrarily define life and decide that viruses are an acceptable casualty. As far as I'm aware we don't actually have a working definition that covers everything that it seems like it should, without including things that it shouldn't. I could, however, be unfairly generalizing from the general trend in biology for every generalization to have irritatingly frequent exceptions and... Oh.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
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At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Heliman

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2012, 10:25:38 pm »

ahah, sorry, updated that post. Mono lake bacteria should also be noted because of it's ability to work with arsenic based-DNA.
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Bauglir

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2012, 10:34:58 pm »

They should! They're pretty awesome little bastards.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Skyrunner

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2012, 10:36:45 pm »

Hmm, actually, it seems to be 'genetic material', not DNA. Sorry about that :P
Apparently, school biology books are not to be believed...

Also, I've found a more specific list! (plagerized from Wikipedia.)

Homeostasis
Organization: CELLS!
Metabolism
Growth -> What I put down as 'moves'
Adaptation
Response to stimuli
Reproduction

As far as I'm aware we don't actually have a working definition that covers everything that it seems like it should,

I'm pretty sure the list above covers everything we know of. Not counting cell-less alien biology we may or may not discover in the future.

Hmm, seems viruses are not.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 10:38:51 pm by Skyrunner »
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Valid_Dark

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2012, 10:38:15 pm »

By taking our body, we could really simplify it and just say reverse photosynthesis, i.e Metabolism.

@DrPoo
Also, saying a human (or a fish, or a bacteria for that matter) is basically reverse photosynthesis is ... wrong. You oversimplified it. First of all, metabolism is not reverse photosythesis. Metabolism evolved first, iirc. Second, there is much more to us than metabolism. Metabolism doesn't get us a hunk of bone. Nor does it account for the fascinating process of DNA reading, duplicating and mitosis/meiosis. Yes, it does power it. Nope, it isn't it.

But I do reverse photosynthesis every day!
I eat sugar, and it turns the co2 from my exhales into oxygen so I don't need to breath outside my own mouth, also I'm constantly dripping and photon rays radiate out of my fingertips.
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Skyrunner

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2012, 10:42:22 pm »

I'm pretty sure no-one actually calls metabolism 'reverse photosynthesis', because it's actually not.

Reverse photosynthesis seems to imply that you also do photosynthesis. As far as I know, I - we - don't have any photosystems, no chlorophyll, none of the baggage that comes with photosynthesis...


I think you might be using sarcasm mode, but I'm throwing this out here just in case ;P Also better edit my first post...
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bay12 lower boards IRC:irc.darkmyst.org @ #bay12lb
"Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confoud, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and willfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish ... but they never lie" -- Look To Windward

Bauglir

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2012, 10:45:36 pm »

Also the actual chemicals involved are fairly different. It's not just about having enzymes that reverse the reaction gradient, although I guess that would've been an elegant way to do it.

As for the life definition, you could probably make a convincing argument for a machine that manufactures its own spare parts as being alive, as long as at least some part of it is made of styrofoam and it has buttons that manipulate the way it functions.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Skyrunner

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2012, 10:48:51 pm »

The common sci-fi depiction of nanobots will probably meet all seven-

Homeostasis - Inside & outside of the robot
Organization: CELLS, or nanoCELLs
Metabolism - They have a habit of devouring society as we know it.
Growth - Iffy about this one.
Adaptation - they are invincibles
Response to stimuli - They respond, all right.
Reproduction - They make more.
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bay12 lower boards IRC:irc.darkmyst.org @ #bay12lb
"Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confoud, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and willfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish ... but they never lie" -- Look To Windward

Valid_Dark

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2012, 10:49:40 pm »

Reverse photosynthesis seems to imply that you also do photosynthesis. As far as I know, I - we - don't have any photosystems, no chlorophyll, none of the baggage that comes with photosynthesis...


I think you might be using sarcasm mode, but I'm throwing this out here just in case ;P Also better edit my first post...

I was under the impression Reverse photosynthesis implied that you do photosynthesis in the reverse order.
6 CO2(g) + 6 H2O(l) + photons → C6H12O6(aq) + 6 O2(g)
carbon dioxide + water + light   → glucose + oxygen                         -this is the formula for photosynthesis,

so I figured reverse would be
glucose + oxygen → carbon dioxide + water + light

and good job detecting that sarcasm   ;D
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ChairmanPoo

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BURN BABY BURNNN!!
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2012, 10:50:27 pm »

(iv) It has DNA
Incorrect. I'm pretty sure that many bacteria use RNA as their primary memory component.
I doubt it very much. I think you're mixing them up with something else.

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Also. Mono Lake Bacteria use an alternative genetic structure that can use arsenic instead of Phosphorus.


A strange bacterium found in California’s Mono Lake cannot replace the phosphorus in its DNA with arsenic, according to researchers who have been trying to reproduce the results of a controversial report published in Science in 2010.



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Criptfeind

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2012, 10:51:51 pm »

Thinking Viruses I think. And no. They do not count as life as we know it.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things to ponder / discuss (The Questions Thread)
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2012, 10:53:17 pm »

How exactly does Daylight Savings Time work, and what are its benefits?
What is Daylight Savings Time? An absolute mess is what.
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Re: BURN BABY BURNNN!!
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2012, 10:53:58 pm »


(iv) It has DNA

So any form of life we discover in space, a.k.a. any sort of alien discovered, isn't alive because it doesn't use Deoxy-ribose Nucleic acid to encode their genetic structure?


Also, my state doesn't observe daylight savings
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There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't


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My milkshake brings all the criminals to justice.
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