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[G-Flex]

No you don't understand! Vector is really a travelling internet gipsy, and she carries a great and legendary artefact, the orb of intellect! At well as a very impressive +8 to the holders INT score, it has a passive aura that causes all near the holder to act in a calm and civilised manner. Without that artefact, we are doooomed!

Ethnic stereotyping in a thread about one of the board's most outspokenly progressive* users is a bit amusingly ironic.


*If this wasn't a totally correct term to use, I apologize. It's just my impression and I don't mean it in a bad way.

[Max White]

Wait, I was making an ethnic stereotype? Of who(m?)? I am some what sure gipsy is an occupation.

[G-Flex]

Guess again.

[Max White]

Wait, are we talking the same people here? I was thinking the large caravan, trade songs for food, fall in love with the hunchback type...

EDIT:

Mostly through important taboo systems, the Yeniche also differ culturally and ethnically from the Roma and are considered a different group, though they may fall under a more generic but often more loosely defined category of Gypsy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniche_people

[G-Flex]

Wait, are we talking the same people here? I was thinking the large caravan, trade songs for food, fall in love with the hunchback type...

Which is an ethnic stereotype of gypsies, yes, along with stealing things and laying curses upon people and that kind of thing. It's just not often seen as a stereotype in American culture, because seemingly few Americans are aware of their existence as a real people.


EDIT: Regarding that link, "gypsy" more commonly refers to the Roma people, although we're talking about stereotypes and prejudice here, in which case people might not be properly distinguishing between them anyway.

[scriver]

Max, did you even read that article? Even the title? Even if "gypsy" wouldn't have been referring to Romani as welld and just Yeniche, it would still be an ethnic stereotype. They're an ethnicity and a people as well.

[G-Flex]

The thing is that, as far as I know, the Roma people never had much of a presence/history in the US, so they're not as... culturally relevant here? They're sort of acceptable targets because the reality of the situation isn't as clear to people in the US who have basically never had to hear about them in a serious context. It's like if you see a casual black stereotype used as a mascot in some other nations, because they don't take it seriously due to never having had much history with race relations.

[Max White]

Well the people I was referring to, that is those of western Europe, rather than a travelling Indian race, aren't exactly an ethnicity of their own, it is just a term for a vagabond in a specific area in a specific time period. For there to be an ethnic stereotype, I would have to be talking about Caucasians or Europeans.
It's like saying aristocrats or fishermen are an ethnic race. You can could choose to run away and become a gipsy, assuming they would accept you, but you can't run away and change your genetics.

EDIT:
Ok, you see this guy?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What is he?

[G-Flex]

Well the people I was referring to, that is those of western Europe, rather than a travelling Indian race, aren't exactly an ethnicity of their own, it is just a term for a vagabond in a specific area in a specific time period. For there to be an ethnic stereotype, I would have to be talking about Caucasians or Europeans.
It's like saying aristocrats or fishermen are an ethnic race. You can could choose to run away and become a gipsy, assuming they would accept you, but you can't run away and change your genetics.

You're being extremely insensitive right now and you don't even know it. "Gypsy" refers to a people, or a set of peoples. It does not refer to an occupation or lifestyle. It never has. When it refers to things like traveling thieves and vagabonds, that's because those things are associated with that ethnic and cultural group, generally the Roma. It's like if "Hispanic" started being used as a term for itinerant workers; you wouldn't be able to get away with saying it.


Also, the Romani people have been living in Europe for a very long time. Calling them "Indian" is just plain crude, and using the term "race" to describe them is just wrong and weird. And this might surprise you, but you can stereotype or harbor prejudice against a cultural or ethnic group that is more specific than, say, "caucasian". People do this all the time, and have for longer than the word "caucasian" has even existed.

[Max White]

EDIT:
Ok, you see this guy?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What is he?

[G-Flex]

I don't know, because I have no idea who that particular cartoon character is. Would you like to actually respond to our points instead of throwing red herrings into the ring like this?


EDIT: Minor point of order: Not that arguments from etymology are ever really valid, but if we want to talk about the history of the word, "gypsy" comes from the mistaken belief that the ethnic group in question originated in Egypt.

[Max White]

Wow... So you honestly don't know what I am talking about.
Look, clearly there are several meanings for the same word, and my definition is not the same as yours. I don't know anything about the people you are talking about, but that doesn't mean I am referring to the group you think I am referring to. It is clearly a broader term than you think it is.
It is like you getting offended if I said the dark skinned population from Australia, and you got all irate saying they were from South Africa.

[G-Flex]

Wow... So you honestly don't know what I am talking about.
Look, clearly there are several meanings for the same word, and my definition is not the same as yours. I don't know anything about the people you are talking about, but that doesn't mean I am referring to the group you think I am referring to. It is clearly a broader term than you think it is.
It is like you getting offended if I said the dark skinned population from Australia, and you got all irate saying they were from South Africa.

So let me get this straight. You're totally okay with using an ethnic slur to describe people who fit the stereotype that ethnic slur refers to, just because you're unaware that it's an ethnic slur to begin with, or choose to ignore that fact? You don't see how this is offensive? Are you also the kind of person who thinks it's okay to say you've been "jewed" out of something when ripped off financially, or to say someone is acting like a "faggot" because they're flamboyant or effeminate?

I'm not even going to respond to your analogy at the end there, because I have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make with it.

[scriver]

The Fool Dude is from Disney's The Hunchback of Notre-Dame. I don't remember if that guy was part of the "gypsies" or if Hugo ever went into detail about which ethnicity they belonged to (Disney certainly didn't) but from the looks of them Esmeralda and Quasimodo were supposed to be Romani.

And, no, Max, it's like you said "the niggers from Australia" and insited "nigger" was actually a word for the "occupation" of being a slave.

[Blargityblarg]

Max, as a fellow Aussie, I can tell you that G-flex is right here, and gypsy does refer to an ethnic group, regardless of how much you think otherwise. It's simply been disassociated from real people due to their rarity outside of Europe, just like I didn't bat an eyelid at my mother referring to 'Red Indians' until I thought about it for a second.