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[Mephansteras]

Mod: If a Detective (say, IronyOwl) were to inspect a mad scientist or bodyguard, would he learn their specific role or just receive a generic Mad Scientist/Bodyguard result?

Detectives deduce what they can from what they see and hear.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Damn you and your vagueness of answer.

[Toaster]

For what it's worth, the detective last game got Guardian specifically when investigating one.  I think it's safe to assume that Book really is a guard, since his behavior per Jim makes sense as one, and GG's protect result bears that out, as well as Irony's result.


Find could conceivably be an incriminating result for a xeno infiltrator, though SC's human result on Jim makes him look better, since I sincerely doubt there are any human scum.  That doesn't mean that SC isn't also scum lying to cover Jim.

For Irony to be lying, either he's got a holoform mod or Shakerag is lying to cover him.  I offer no explanation as to what he was doing visiting Dariush.  The fact that Jim was able to see Irony visit Dariush seems to eliminate the possibility of it just being bastardness screwing us here.

[GlyphGryph]

IF there are scum infiltrators, they might just have human roles.

Note that Dariush, our obvscum, had the same role Jim has (assuming we can believe Irony), and was not an alien either.

What if we're dealing with humans/dopps who simply don't want to escape? Maybe they /like/ it here, or they think they themselves will be rewarded for turning us in, or they've been brainwashed somehow. Because it's not looking like we've Xeno's in our group at this point so much as Xeno collaborators - conceivably one from each race.

[GlyphGryph]

Vote Jim for now. I'm honestly feeling like he's on a scumteam with Servant at this point. All those little alarms going off. Maybe he's being honest and just doesn't have much time this game, but Jim does not feel like Jim.

Though I look forward to Irony coming back and confirming Shakky.

[Toaster]

By my count, it's now a three-way tie, with Shakerag conveniently not voting.

Urist Imiknorris: Toaster, Servant Corps
Servant Corps: IronyOwl, Jim G
Jim: Urist Imiknorris, GlyphGryph


Ugh.  I don't trust UI as I've said repeatedly, but Servant irks me as well- there's just something about him that smells of "I'm sitting in the background and not really doing anything."  His claim's pretty easy to fake, as well.

[Toaster]

GG:  Why Jim over Servant?

[GlyphGryph]

Jim is the one with the major inconsistency in his action-claim.

Logically, Servant's guilt rests mostly on Jim's being scum, and isn't the only explanation. If Jim watched /him/, that would explain why he didn't see IronyOwl, for example.

In addition, while Servant feels scummy, Jim feels moreso. And IronyOwl doesn't really feel so at all, leading me to believe his claim.

Why Servant over Jim, Toaster?

[Mephansteras]

The Vote Tally
Jim Groovester: GlyphGryph, Urist Imiknorris
Urist Imiknorris: Toaster, Servant Corps
Servant Corps: IronyOwl, Jim Groovester


Rest phase ends ~5pm Pacific Today

[Toaster]

GG:  Servant over Jim for non role result related reasons- I've got more of a scum read on him. 


I don't like how the people under fire aren't talking much.  I doubt anyone will agree with me, but I'd love an extend.

[GlyphGryph]

Much as I'd love to see this day end, I'm gonna second that. I still want to hear IronyOwl confirm his race.

extend

I don't like how quiet ANYONE is being but we'd get a weeknight out of tonight and maybe get somewhere.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Extend. Evening class for the lose.

[Shakerag]

Okay, doing my big weekend catchup read now.  I'm jotting things down as I see them, but I'll try to format it a little better once I finish.


Toaster:  If Dariush was an infiltrator, he might have been assigned or given tech for his "mission" and one of those items could have been a holoform modulator. 


GlyphGryph:  In regards to there being two reporters, Meph has made it fairly clear that he's trying to eliminate statistical reasoning/gambler's fallacy stuff from his games.  So I think any kind of analysis based on allocation of roles is likely not going to be fruitful. 


Hmm.  I don't like that GG just gave us a three-way tie.  Servent Corps has had some fishy posts, but he doesn't really seem to be setting off scum alarms for me.  I'm a little surprised he didn't get dogpiled on for admitting that he's okay with last-minute vote switching. 

So my gut is telling me that Urist Imiknorris is scum.  I echo Toaster's feelings about the pilot claiming business, and I'm getting a vibe coming off of him like he's looking for anyone to lynch, not looking for scum to lynch.  I also get suspicious of people focusing too heavily on WIFOM when confronted.  (Along those lines, I wonder if Jim could be UI's buddy somehow.)  And, while I have read through the whole back and forth here with claimed actions and proposed scenarios of what happened, I can't help but find it very suspicious that we had two claimed pilots drop dead in a row, and the only remaining claimed pilot has not been NK'd (and possibly not even targeted for a NK).  Coincidence?  Sure, maybe, but the only one confirmed visiting UI night 3 was a guard.  I'd be willing to bet that UI was planning on explaining his lack of dying away as WIFOM way early in the game. 

[Shakerag]

Oppose Shorten, oppose extend.

The standard Rest length of 3 RL days is the middle-ground that you assume will get you decently rested while not dawdling too long in one place.

Extend. Evening class for the lose.

Refresh my memory of when you changed your mind about extending?

I suppose that since it appears we may be extending twice today, we've all (or at least a majority of us) decided that the whole extend-shorten thing doesn't really matter?

Oppose extend for now.  I'll retract that or confirm I'm keeping it in 60 minutes.  I don't want someone to slip in the last one without at least a bit of thought.

[Servant Corps]

I don't follow. You're denying that it's WIFOM, while exactly describing WIFOM. How is your argument not WIFOM?

I think you intentionally misunderstood my argument.

This is not my argument: "thinking that Urist wasn't targeted because scum wanted to frame him for being scum, so therefore Urist's town, but that's what scum wants us to think, so of course Urist's scum." This is an example of WIFOM, and that's not what I did.

What I did was argue is that scum did something that would maximize its chances of success without taking into account what other people would think or adjusting its actions based on what other people would think. That's isn't 'WIFOM', that's just direct thinking.

Urist Imiknorris might be scum. Or maybe he was never targeted. Or maybe the action failed somehow. There are lots of possibilities, all equally possible, all equally unknowable. Why choose one over another? Why draw any conclusion at all from it?

Because that's inefficient and dumb. Anything could happen, but that doesn't me we ignore any evidence that we can find or gather. And nightkills are important evidence because that's usually the only thing scum controls. Knowing that someone is killed and trying to piece together why this happened can shed light as to what happened.
---
On an unrelated note, I'm beginning to come around to the idea that NKs are controlled and that there are indeed infiltrators, though this possibility fills me with dread, because it implies there will be another Rest Phase, with potentially new game mechanics as well.