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[Toaster]

They don't have to be- I consider it the most likely scenario.

[Servant Corps]

Fair enough.

[IronyOwl]

Imiknorris:

IRONYOWL. WHY DID JIM NOT SEE YOU VISIT ME N2.

Good point. Normally I'd say it's because Jim is lying scum, but that would require Dariush to have been non-scum or, as pointed out, two separate reporters on the same team.


Servant:

I'm not advocating LAL, show me where I was.

You were voting people for lurking while objecting to an extension and expressing serious doubts that they were actually scum. What would you call that?


Toaster:

Irony:  UI claimed Alien Survivor, which indeed shows as No Role when detectived- see the role list.

I see.

UI raises an excellent point about how your claim and Jim's don't match.  What is the flavor of your inspect?  How do you determine someone's role while running beside them?

Normally, I watch them while running. In Dariush's case, for instance, I noticed he seemed to be keeping tabs on someone, and concluded he was a Reporter as a result. You were an exception, in that I thought about little things you'd said and done, rather than paying attention to you at the time.

Also, Dariush's result of Reporter and his actions are highly inconsistent.  If he's, for example, a standard dopp reporter, the crap he made up might just be part of his fakeclaim.  However, if he's alien infiltrator scum, why did he inspect as reporter?

This I don't know, but if infiltrators show up as such to inspections we probably don't have any. Nearly everyone's been cleared as not an alien or something other than an infiltrator.

[Servant Corps]

You were voting people for lurking while objecting to an extension and expressing serious doubts that they were actually scum. What would you call that?

I was voting people not for lurking but to put pressure on them to not lurk but to speak (and now for them to 'double-confirm'). I don't know what would you call that sort of voting behavior though...

But now I know that what you meant by LAL is "lynch all lurkers"; I was a little confused on what that meant.

[IronyOwl]

I was voting people not for lurking but to put pressure on them to not lurk but to speak (and now for them to 'double-confirm'). I don't know what would you call that sort of voting behavior though...

What would you have done at day's end if it became clear they weren't going to show, then?

[Jim Groovester]

Here's something to note though. If Shakerag "checks out", then my vote is going to Urist I. His story is untenable due to the information provided by the roleclaims that make his explanations about Bookthras' protection/death more and more tenuous and the suspicious nature of his own pilot claim (which could be used to lure out other pilots for him to be NKed). Despite claiming that pilots are important, he has not been a night-kill target...the only way that makes sense if he was scum.

This is a flimsy argument. He's scum because he hasn't been targeted?

That's WIFOM. Seeing it spread like this gets me unnerved.

Why would captor infiltrators have to be 'aliens'? It's possible for a Doppelganger/Human to try and actively sabotage us in order to help the aliens that previously captured us.

Do you have some privileged knowledge on the subject? You're quick to offer up this as a possibility, but equally quick to discourage the idea that there are infiltrators in our group.

I'm going to go with Servant Corps. My gut says he's also a dopp. I've got no specific reason to think this though.

IRONYOWL. WHY DID JIM NOT SEE YOU VISIT ME N2.

Good point. Normally I'd say it's because Jim is lying scum, but that would require Dariush to have been non-scum or, as pointed out, two separate reporters on the same team.

That's funny. Normally I'd say the same thing about you.

If I'm scum, why would Dariush not be?

[IronyOwl]

If I'm scum, why would Dariush not be?

The evidence seems pretty solid for you being a Reporter, and roles have seemed spread out and comprehensive enough that I'd be very surprised if there's duplicates within factions. That means if you're lying, it'd have to be about just that one night, where you were presumably off killing PM instead.

Thing is, only one faction appears to have access to a kill, and Dariush, in addition to being scummy as all fuck, confessed to it. I suppose it's possible you're an infiltrator and he was a hostile RIAing dopp, but it doesn't seem very likely.

[Servant Corps]

This is a flimsy argument. He's scum because he hasn't been targeted?

That's WIFOM. Seeing it spread like this gets me unnerved.

WIFOM occurs if you start overthinking the potential moves of scum or trying to take into account very unlikely and rare possibilities...for example, thinking that Urist wasn't targeted because scum wanted to frame him for being scum, so therefore Urist's town, but that's what scum wants us to think, so of course Urist's scum. (All this, of course, assume that there is someone or some group that can control NKs...but since you guys seem to believe that, then looking at why people were killed...and why they were not is important.)

My case based off more than the fact he wasn't targeted, by the way. There was outcry about Urist's roleclaim back when he did it to try and rolefish and find other pilots, who then died off. I believed he used the pilot claim as a way to justify not lynching him, so he could not contribute. All of this, together, make Urist a scum candidate, not each individual aspect by itself.

Why would captor infiltrators have to be 'aliens'? It's possible for a Doppelganger/Human to try and actively sabotage us in order to help the aliens that previously captured us.

Do you have some privileged knowledge on the subject? You're quick to offer up this as a possibility, but equally quick to discourage the idea that there are infiltrators in our group.

I have no privileged knowledge, except the fact that it's a bastard mod and it's very likely for several roles (like mine) to be made useless.

I was voting people not for lurking but to put pressure on them to not lurk but to speak (and now for them to 'double-confirm'). I don't know what would you call that sort of voting behavior though...

What would you have done at day's end if it became clear they weren't going to show, then?

I don't know. I'd probably switch my vote to Urist because I'm not going to let scum win on LYLO and I'm more confident that he's scum than the lurkers are.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Servant Corps:

WIFOM occurs if you start overthinking the potential moves of scum or trying to take into account very unlikely and rare possibilities...for example, thinking that Urist wasn't targeted because scum wanted to frame him for being scum, so therefore Urist's town, but that's what scum wants us to think, so of course Urist's scum.

But that's what scum wants you to think (because it'd work, at least on you), and so on forever. That's what WIFOM is.

I believed he used the pilot claim as a way to justify not lynching him, so he could not contribute.

Not contribute? How have I not been contributing?

I don't know. I'd probably switch my vote to Urist because I'm not going to let scum win on LYLO and I'm more confident that he's scum than the lurkers are.

Then why aren't you voting me now?

IronyOwl:

Good point. Normally I'd say it's because Jim is lying scum, but that would require Dariush to have been non-scum or, as pointed out, two separate reporters on the same team.

I notice you didn't actually answer my question. Probably because the answer is that you're lying scum.

[Servant Corps]

But that's what scum wants you to think (because it'd work, at least on you), and so on forever. That's what WIFOM is.

No, that's the invoking of WIFOM, trying to disregard or obstruct anything useful. No, I think scum does what is necessary, and then hope its get ignored or justified in the day phase. I don't believe sucm intentionally try to invoke WIFOM.

I believed he used the pilot claim as a way to justify not lynching him, so he could not contribute.

Not contribute? How have I not been contributing?[/quote]
I was referring to:

Having said that, however, Powder Miner is focusing a little too heavily on the whole "look at me, I'm a pilot, why do you want to lynch me" thing, and not much else.

Of course, I apologize for being wrong, because I mentally thought it was you, not Powder Miner.

I don't know. I'd probably switch my vote to Urist because I'm not going to let scum win on LYLO and I'm more confident that he's scum than the lurkers are.

Then why aren't you voting me now?[/quote]
I'm waiting for Shakerag.

[IronyOwl]

Servant:

I don't know. I'd probably switch my vote to Urist because I'm not going to let scum win on LYLO and I'm more confident that he's scum than the lurkers are.

Did you explicitly plan on being around at day end, then? Do you think it's alright to switch the lynch at the last moment like that?


Imiknorris:

I notice you didn't actually answer my question. Probably because the answer is that you're lying scum.

That's because I don't know the answer. I don't think Jim is lying, but I'm quite certain I visited you N2. That leaves wild speculation about bastard mechanics.

[Urist Imiknorris]

All right, I think I'll wait for Shakerag before making any decisions about you, Irony.

Jim, what input can you offer about the discrepancy between your and Irony's claims?

Servant Corps:

No, that's the invoking of WIFOM, trying to disregard or obstruct anything useful. No, I think scum does what is necessary, and then hope its get ignored or justified in the day phase. I don't believe sucm intentionally try to invoke WIFOM.

Scenario: you're scum and need to kill all the pilots to win. There is one claimed pilot left, meaning any sane bodyguard would protect him. Knowing that, would you still try to kill him, or would you rather try to get him lynched on the grounds that nobody tried to kill him?

That is why my survival is WIFOM.

[GlyphGryph]

So, off that... did anyone actually try to get you lynched that day? I can't even remember...

[Urist Imiknorris]

No. As you put it:

Let's be honest, Dariush is going to make damn well sure he's lynched today, there's no question about that.

[Urist Imiknorris]

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO LURKING.