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[IronyOwl]

TolyK:

That was a different thing I was talking about.

What different thing? You've claimed a full roleclaim, but the only thing I see that'd be "difficult" would be being a doctor, which I don't see how you could not realize from the beginning.

But anyways, my wincon is to have at least someone escape on the ship.

So yeah. My role is basically a miller survivor with a cherry on top...

These two are contradictory.

I'm a miller with the first wincon.
And a doctor. Awesome huh?

Then why'd you describe yourself as a survivor?

Also, does your PM specifically mention anything about being a miller, ie "the humans probably won't like that?"

although I think it's possible for their wincon to change during the day/night.

I know nothing about win conditions that change, but the stuff I do know is from my role pm.

Then why imply that you do?

I'm a dopp that wants at least one guy to make it to the shuttle. I have a protect that I can use... I've noticed an inconsistency, I've PM'd Meph about it.
Don't believe me? Tell me to protect whoever.

One shot or consistent? Do you explicitly know that the target would be made aware of it?

Received confirmation that I do indeed protect a captive, not a captor.

!

What do you mean "captive, not a captor?" Are there captors among us, or are you just specifying that you won't defend security forces or something? Will it fail if used against a captor, making it an inspect of sorts? What exactly, as close as you can describe, was this contradiction that led you to ask about this?



Imiknorris:

Something about the setting tells me we're not getting roleflips.

Good point. It'd make perfect sense for lynches, less sense for NKs, though, so who knows.

[Zrk2]

Zrk2:

I'll try to make sure people post, but I can't do everything.

Then what are you accomplishing if people can just safely ignore you?

My thought is that I'll get responses from those that are scumhunting and after today I'll go back and find everyone that hasn't posted one and call them on that because if they can't name someone who they think is scummy other than their pick then they most likely aren't really scumhunting.

TolyK, you said that was a full roleclaim, but I want more details.

[Bookthras]

Bookthras: Would you mind explaining why you ignored Powder Miner after he answered your questions to him, but continued to vote him?

I didn't ignore him, I asked him follow up questions; why are you ignoring those? It seems you wish to create a "suspicion" by fabricating evidence. That's very scummy of you.

I'm still voting him because his claim still sounds to me like he accidentally claimed dopp scientist: "he's not hostile to the others", which others? other dopps, I think. If he was human he'd have said "they're not hostile to me" instead of the other way around (and how would he know that?); town is the recipient of hostility, not the source.

I'm also still voting him because he's mostly useless and I haven't found a better target, but you are climbing on my suspicions list: your story is interesting and informative towards understanding the setting, and I'm willing to believe some of it, but the holes in it, half truths and contradictions of your process is iffy and scummy, and your fabrication of evidence above seems just grasping at straws.

For example, you have not satisfactorily addressed this contradiction:

So yeah. My role is basically a miller survivor with a cherry on top...

My goal is for at least one guy to escape on the shuttle.

Are you a survivor? Or just want one guy to make it? Do you win with your faction if you are dead at the end? If so, then why did you say you were a survivor? If not, then why say "one guy" when that guy has to be you?

Again, I'm willing to believe most of your story, except for the notions that you're harmless or that you are telling the whole truth.

[Bookthras]

Error on the above; I mistakenly thought it was Tolyk's post, not Imiknorris'.

To clarify: the fabricated evidence charge is against Imiknorris; the unaddressed contradictions are for Tolyk to address. Sorry for the confusion.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Indeed, you did ask PM follow-up questions... eventually. Why didn't you do so earlier, perhaps in the three posts I linked where PM had answered your question but you were still letting your vote sit on him? The fact remains that you completely ignored his response to your initial questions. Your follow-up questions were regarding something he said significantly later.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Also, perhaps you should try to separate your attacks on me and TolyK, if only for the sake of comprehensibility.

[Powder Miner]

Book. That was the result of me awkwardly phrasing it. I was trying to paraphrase so I didn't break the PM quoting rule. A more accurate paraphrase of it would be that I don't want the others to get hurt, but I'm who matters.

[Bookthras]

Indeed, you did ask PM follow-up questions... eventually. Why didn't you do so earlier, perhaps in the three posts I linked where PM had answered your question but you were still letting your vote sit on him? The fact remains that you completely ignored his response to your initial questions. Your follow-up questions were regarding something he said significantly later.

Bullshit. You are fabricating "evidence" out of thin air. Between his answering my question and the follow up, I posted four times; answering other's questions, or questioning others. Is your contention that I should have tunneled on him exclusively? Or that I should have unvoted him when he answered my questions, even if I still thought he was scummy?

In short, I vote him because I find him scummy; this somehow displeases you? Why?


PPE: PM: Again: which "others"?

[Mephansteras]

The Vote Tally
Bookthras: Urist Imiknorris
Flandre: Jim Groovester, Think0028, Toonyman, Zrk2
Powder Miner: Bookthras, Dariush, Flandre
TolyK: IronyOwl, NativeForeigner
Urist Imiknorris: Toaster


Rest phase ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

[Powder Miner]

The other captives. I'm not going to put a spin on t, it's just the other captives.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Bullshit. You are fabricating "evidence" out of thin air. Between his answering my question and the follow up, I posted four times; answering other's questions, or questioning others. Is your contention that I should have tunneled on him exclusively? Or that I should have unvoted him when he answered my questions, even if I still thought he was scummy?

No, my contention is that you should have acknowledged him at all in that span. If you still found him scummy, you should have continued pushing him. I'm not sure why I need to be explaining this to you.

[Bookthras]

Imiknorris:

Bullshit. You are fabricating "evidence" out of thin air. Between his answering my question and the follow up, I posted four times; answering other's questions, or questioning others. Is your contention that I should have tunneled on him exclusively? Or that I should have unvoted him when he answered my questions, even if I still thought he was scummy?

No, my contention is that you should have acknowledged him at all in that span. If you still found him scummy, you should have continued pushing him. I'm not sure why I need to be explaining this to you.

I'll tell you why you are explaining it to me: because you are grasping at straws and working really hard to make the motions that there's something there, but there's nothing. I did continue pushing him, four posts later, as he wasn't the only thing going on. I don't need to acknowledge every time someone answers a question. And I certainly don't need to play to your schedule.

I repeat: should I have tunneled on him exclusively? Shouldn't I have questioned others, or answered questions addressed at me, until I had exhausted the Powder Miner topic? Is your whining based solely on "you didn't acknowledge him"? Should I have unvoted him when he answered my questions, even if I still thought he was scummy? If not, then what's your point?

While you're answering the above, I asked Toaster earlier to restate his case on you. He did so here (oh Toaster! I didn't acknowledge that you answered my question! I'm sooo sorry!). Please respond to it. I also noticed you seemed to think a hivemind wouldn't be a threat to "your plans," but never explained why. Please do so.


Powder Miner:
So, your story is that "you are not hostile to the other captives", right? Please explain why that should have been made explicit to you if you were a human. Humans, by default, aren't hostile to the other captives, right? But if a dopp is in the group, they need to be explicitly told that they aren't hostile to the others, yes? I still think you are a dopp scientist, otherwise "you aren't hostile to the others" wouldn't have been part of your role description.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Bookthras:

Imiknorris:

No, my contention is that you should have acknowledged him at all in that span. If you still found him scummy, you should have continued pushing him. I'm not sure why I need to be explaining this to you.

I'll tell you why you are explaining it to me: because you are grasping at straws and working really hard to make the motions that there's something there, but there's nothing. I did continue pushing him, four posts later, as he wasn't the only thing going on. I don't need to acknowledge every time someone answers a question. And I certainly don't need to play to your schedule.

I repeat: should I have tunneled on him exclusively? Shouldn't I have questioned others, or answered questions addressed at me, until I had exhausted the Powder Miner topic? Is your whining based solely on "you didn't acknowledge him"? Should I have unvoted him when he answered my questions, even if I still thought he was scummy? If not, then what's your point?

a) You are creating a false dichotomy. There are more options than tunneling or ignoring someone. You could perhaps question both him and other people.
b) Presumably, if you still found him scummy after he answered your question, you'd continue pressuring him immediately. Pressure doesn't work unless you keep it up, after all, and if you were so convinced he was scum that you didn't need pressure, you'd surely be trying to get other people to vote him, yes? Considering that you did neither, you obviously didn't care all that much about your vote.

While you're answering the above, I asked Toaster earlier to restate his case on you. He did so here. Please respond to it.

Sure:

Toaster:

Book:  Urist I made a craptacular accusation that I was bandwagonning with a second vote

It was an obvterrible attack as a reaction test.

while at the same time posting that he was paranoid about third parties (a common scum move).

Given that Jim was specifically asking about my thoughts on potentially hostile third parties...

We went back and forth, with him spewing more crap and nonsense, and being deliberately obtuse.

I thought you were referring to an ability when you said "vote block" - hence the mind control ray comment. I assume the "deliberately obtuse" part is referring to my "I don't really care about a hivemind" quote - which is not obtuse in the least when you realize that I claimed alien survivor in that very post.

Finally, he's claimed alien survivor.

Hell yeah, but so what?

Back to Bookthras:

(oh Toaster! I didn't acknowledge that you answered my question! I'm sooo sorry!)

Hurr hurr.

I also noticed you seemed to think a hivemind wouldn't be a threat to "your plans," but never explained why. Please do so.

Hiveminds can only convert humans +
I am an alien, not a human =
I am immune to conversion =
I can safely ignore a hivemind, unless their goal is to prevent us from leaving.

Not that hard.

Powder Miner, answer my question.

[Powder Miner]

Urist I: I was being useless because I'm not used to playing survivor- this is my first time playing it.
Book:A): I'm a human with a non-town alignment, so I'm already different and don't have the "Us town need to kill the dopps together" motivation. A little bit of flavor clarification on my alignment's passivity (as a survivor) was basically what it was

B):

Humans, by default, aren't hostile to the other captives, right?

Wrong. Humans would be hostile to the doppelgangers as town. I'm a survivor and therefore not hostile to the dopps.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Urist I: I was being useless because I'm not used to playing survivor- this is my first time playing it.

And how does being useless help you not get lynched?