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[Knight Otu]

In adventure mode, can you grab things that arent equipped on you like branches in mid-jump? This is essential for something I want to try when the new release comes out.

You can grab onto tiles during a jump or fall. Whether it works for what you want I can't say, though:

You can grab hold of tiles in flight now, either after a jump or a fall. The success rate depends on how fast you are going, and I'm sure it'll depend on attributes and any relevant skills, although I'm not sure I've got a relevant skill named yet. I managed to jump between two far apart branches of a tree, then between trees, and I jumped along a rough wall, which seems like it should be quite dangerous.

[smjjames]

In adventure mode, can you grab things that arent equipped on you like branches in mid-jump? This is essential for something I want to try when the new release comes out.

You can grab onto tiles during a jump or fall. Whether it works for what you want I can't say, though:

You can grab hold of tiles in flight now, either after a jump or a fall. The success rate depends on how fast you are going, and I'm sure it'll depend on attributes and any relevant skills, although I'm not sure I've got a relevant skill named yet. I managed to jump between two far apart branches of a tree, then between trees, and I jumped along a rough wall, which seems like it should be quite dangerous.

Actually, looks like that quote answers my question. I had heard of the grabbing tiles bit, but I guess I was thinking of branches as an item rather than a tile.

[Footkerchief]

I don't have a document.  If I did, it'd be publicly viewable on the wiki or something.

Will retired adventurers be treated the same as normal histfigs?  Will they be able to set off into the wilds, become necromancers, marry, ascend to positions etc?

I'm mostly wondering if I'll be waylaid by a past adventurer who has become a bandit or if he might lead an attack on my fort or something hehe

As far as I know the game doesn't make any difference between retired adventurers and other historical figures, so anything a historical figure can do, a retired adventurer should also be able to do. A quick search only gave me this, which is a bit too specific, but I'm sure someone more quote-skilled can find more ;P

[Toad-quotes]

I'd add that NPCs only become necromancers during world gen, so retired adventurers won't do that.  I found some slightly more general information in DF Talk, concerning the commonality between adventurers and historical figures:

Rainseeker:   What happens if you retire in a village after you're infected?
Toady:   I don't think there's a check for it, and I think you know, score, you just happen to cure yourself, or something. Now, I'm not a hundred percent sure. For all I know, it just saves it and then it's just Oh, you're still infected, or whatever. I haven't tried it, so it's hard to say because it applies some healing, but it doesn't get rid of your scars, so it keeps some wound information, 'cause all the scars are just wounds that have a flag on them that says it's a scar.
Rainseeker:   Yeah.
Toady:   So it may or may not. So it's one of those things where it just depends on what I put when I put the 'replaced person in town' function or whatever. Yeah, I really don't remember. You know, ideally it would carry through all the effects, but I know it doesn't do that, 'cause it doesn't kill a lot of people that are waiting to die.
Rainseeker:   So we're still not at a place yet where we can take over historical figures, right?
Toady:   Yeah, that's correct. We're not at a place where we can do that. I mean, there's nothing stopping it, right? Because when you unretire an adventurer you're just taking control of a historical figure. So there's nothing technical about stopping it. There are just conceptual problems about, what happens when you take over the king of this or the king of that. It's just silly, I guess, 'cause they don't recognize your authority or anything. So it's kind of goofy that you can do that. But, yeah. It's one of those things where - I mean, I'm sure we've talked about this in the past, where it's like there's paying somewhat service to that. There's doing some kind of worldgen parameter where you can set it that it can't be done, so you don't feel tempted to sort of spoil your game by making all the bad things in the world jump off cliffs and then go hit play, or whatever. So there's some small concerns and missing swathes of content, but there aren't huge barriers to doing that.
Rainseeker:   I suppose an easy way out would be to suddenly, if you're the king, have your advisors declare that you're possessed and that you're no longer acting like the king and you are now dethroned, so you could leave and people would recognize you as the former king of such-and-such.
Toady:   I guess it would be one of those things where there's also, even if you choose to take control of a peasant there'd also have to be a thing where it's like, 'And your family doesn't recognize you and they think of you as a stranger now,' or something because you'd be possessed, because you would talk to them like strangers or whatever. Or not strangers, 'cause the people in your starting town, at least, know your name and know who you are and they greet you a little differently already, but they wouldn't recognize you as a family member, because the traditional adventurers don't have family members so I didn't have a reason to put that in. So, it stacks up, and it becomes a non-priority item until we add something, you know? Something that makes it matter, 'cause what is the point of taking over a historical figure, if all of the historical things about it don't matter yet?
Rainseeker:   Yeah, yeah. And the interesting thing, too, I think - or I was thinking about earlier today - would be to be able to have a lineage, a succession. For adventures, you know. You get married, you have a child, and you take over his line again. Maybe you could have some training that you could give your child, and then he gets some bonuses or something.
Toady:   Yeah, the elements that - I think there's four or so elements that we decided broadly make that up and that's all in the development notes for the pre-version 1 stuff. So that's all going to go in sometime. We just have to get through the various hurdles of getting a spouse, and doing the time-forward motion, and stuff like that. And we've gotten quite a bit further with that now. I mean, your retired adventurers can already get married now.
Rainseeker:   Oh.
Toady:   They can go off and just act like regular people and all retired adventurers are single. (laughter)
Toady:   It's probably one of those times where people are going to want to put in options for how they act when they retire, or whatever. Run over to the goblins and get married or whatever.
Rainseeker:   (laughs) Get married to a goblin chick, yeah.
Toady:   Like, don't do that.
Rainseeker:   Goblin women.
Toady:   It's unclear how much control there's going to be or what's going to happen. Right now, it's all just, wing it. It's just, like, you become a historical figure. You can go move to a dwarf fortress and - if you're a dwarven adventurer, you'll move to a dwarf fortress, and next time one is played, become a citizen of your fortress, and then when you retire your fortress you'll be able to unretire your adventurer from your retired fortress and leave. And then when someone unretires the fortress, then that guy will be gone off wherever he's going and then he'll migrate back.
Rainseeker:   Now does he keep all the skills he might have had during play on Dwarf Fortress, or...?
Toady:   Yeah. Yeah, he keeps everything. He'll probably just drop a sack. I don't remember how it works, if he just drops all of his items or whatever, because dwarven citizens don't carry backpacks filled with meat or whatever. Goblin heads or whatever weird things people put in their backpacks in Adventure Mode. But the skills are the same. The name's the same, the wounds, the scars are the same. Everything that's tracked on a unit is tracked, everything that gets saved is saved, there's just no difference between adventurers and dwarves.
Rainseeker:   So right now it would be a good strategy - interesting strategy, at least, if not good, but if you wanted to increase your adventurer's skills, to just straight out take him to Dwarf Fortress, retire him, play Dwarf Fortress for a while. Build him, you know, have him train, and then take him back over.
Toady:   Yeah, throw the adventurer in the danger room, and you could pretend that was his time with the monk learning the ways of dodging spears or whatever, and then unretire him, and... yeah. Yeah. That all works. It'll be interesting to see what people come up with, and what absoulutely bizarre and stupid situations come out of it.

In adventure mode, can you grab things that arent equipped on you like branches in mid-jump? This is essential for something I want to try when the new release comes out.

You can grab onto tiles during a jump or fall. Whether it works for what you want I can't say, though:

You can grab hold of tiles in flight now, either after a jump or a fall. The success rate depends on how fast you are going, and I'm sure it'll depend on attributes and any relevant skills, although I'm not sure I've got a relevant skill named yet. I managed to jump between two far apart branches of a tree, then between trees, and I jumped along a rough wall, which seems like it should be quite dangerous.

Notably, that move is for player characters only:

I mentioned in the last FotF reply that non-player climbing and jumping were still open questions and that I'd have to try them out before I knew how much we'd have this time around. That was today's project, and it looks we'll be having them both. This includes dwarf mode, so you might have to rethink certain defensive decisions you've been making. I haven't done anything with the strategic thinking of critters, but if they get within about 20 tiles of a target, they can formulate paths that include climbs and horizontal jumps through one air tile to a walkable tile, and they'll also use these forms of movement in limited non-combat situations. Longer jumps aren't yet possible for them, since it is harder to code running starts into the pathing routine, and they don't understand how to jump and then hang onto surface. It's a weakness you can exploit, but they still hop around and cause trouble enough to delight and entertain.

[fricy]

In adventure mode, can you grab things that arent equipped on you like branches in mid-jump? This is essential for something I want to try when the new release comes out.

You can grab onto tiles during a jump or fall. Whether it works for what you want I can't say, though:

You can grab hold of tiles in flight now, either after a jump or a fall. The success rate depends on how fast you are going, and I'm sure it'll depend on attributes and any relevant skills, although I'm not sure I've got a relevant skill named yet. I managed to jump between two far apart branches of a tree, then between trees, and I jumped along a rough wall, which seems like it should be quite dangerous.

Wait a second! So now we'll have to trim the trees near the walls, or otherwise goblin armies can climb them and jump into our fort? Awesome!

So far the only crittres that could step up/down between z levels were titans. With the new jumping/climbing AI will we see goblins/humans/hippies jumping down into our courtyards from now on, is it only horizontal jumping for now?

[smjjames]

In adventure mode, can you grab things that arent equipped on you like branches in mid-jump? This is essential for something I want to try when the new release comes out.

You can grab onto tiles during a jump or fall. Whether it works for what you want I can't say, though:

You can grab hold of tiles in flight now, either after a jump or a fall. The success rate depends on how fast you are going, and I'm sure it'll depend on attributes and any relevant skills, although I'm not sure I've got a relevant skill named yet. I managed to jump between two far apart branches of a tree, then between trees, and I jumped along a rough wall, which seems like it should be quite dangerous.

Wait a second! So now we'll have to trim the trees near the walls, or otherwise goblin armies can climb them and jump into our fort? Awesome!

So far the only crittres that could step up/down between z levels were titans. With the new jumping/climbing AI will we see goblins/humans/hippies jumping down into our courtyards from now on, is it only horizontal jumping for now?

Uh, I don't think non-flying titans and FBs can do that.

I believe it's only horizontal jumping right now. Not sure if the AI can do that to jump down a level.

[fricy]

Uh, I don't think non-flying titans and FBs can do that.

My third fort could testify that titans can do that. Oh, the fun when I discovered that they don't drown either.
On the other hand FBs can't step across z levels, or at least I've never seen one that could.

[smjjames]

Uh, I don't think non-flying titans and FBs can do that.

My third fort could testify that titans can do that. Oh, the fun when I discovered that they don't drown either.
On the other hand FBs can't step across z levels, or at least I've never seen one that could.

Are you absolutely sure it wasn't a flying Titan?

[LordBaal]

I don't have a document.  If I did, it'd be publicly viewable on the wiki or something.

Then you need to donate your brain to science after you die. (Note I didn't say !!SCIENCE!!)

[Eric Blank]

Apologies if this has actually been asked already, but a quick search didn't reveal anything:

Can item-clouds contain vermin? If so, is it possible for the vermin to be alive?

[Magistrum]

Can item-clouds contain vermin? If so, is it possible for the vermin to be alive?

Apparently not, I remember toady saying it's not possible to make those clouds out of living things, but that it's possible to make a special item that becomes a creature or something like that, through modding... Modders are messed up.

But I may be wrong, or didn't get what you mean, can someone back me up?

[Putnam]

Toady: Oh, apples are definitely lethal. And uh, so what that led to though, especially during Fall, when all of the leaves fall of the trees, is it led to these, a couple things, it led to item clouds, which are, kind of like a, they're stored like a breath attack or a mist. But they're a cloud of small items, and then when they land on the ground they turn into an item spatter. So, so we can start thinking about, at least it's another way to think about a lot of small objects, like broken glass or lots of little caltrops, or coins for that matter, but lots of other stuff. And there's information lost as usual, which isn't necessarily a bad thing when it comes to, you know, not wanting to track the specific information about the little object when it comes down to that level. And yeah, stuff like that becomes more feasible because the feet interact with spatter of all kinds so you could definitely see some of that stuff happening. And yeah, of course I have no idea when, but it's all on the table with the new, the new storage system makes interesting things possible. I think you can already mod in item cloud breath or whatever, like if you wanna make a modded creature breathe little daggers at people you could add a little dagger like the carving knives from the tool raws. You could make them breathe forks at people or something.
Capntastic:    I wanna give somebody a honey breath. Or a bee breath, even better.
Rainseeker:    Yeah!
Toady:    Yeah, you can't breathe monsters yet, but you could add an item that's analogous to a monster or something, like a little figurine of a bee that you breathe at people or something. Then add another reaction that makes them come to life. I don't know what people manage to, people manage to do a lot of things. But creatures and interacting with, and making things from scratch and stuff are still , if I remember. I'm kind of out of touch, but uh, that's still feasible. You could probably do something there.

I'm not sure if Toady's quite right there, since vermin can be created in reactions (however braindead they are), but I don't know if item clouds are going to allow all the same items as reactions.

[wierd]

I am just hoping the general item locking and AI rewrite code fixes a number of annoying bugs without introducing more. Fixing the locking on items will (most likely) fix things like the beekeeper bug, and some of the issues with getting water, etc.

I am thinking that the jumping mechanic can probably be circumvented with parapets. (basically, overhang the topmost section of wall out, and away from the current section of wall by 1 tile distance with a constructed fortification.)

You know, something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]


Z0
██████████
██████████
████O═════
████║┼┼┼┼┼
████║┼┼┼┼┼
████║┼┼┼┼┼

Z1
░░░░░░░░░░
░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
░░░▒O═════
░░░▒║░░░░░
░░░▒║░░░░░
░░░▒║░░░░░

Z2
░░░░░░░░░░
░░░#######
░░░#┼┼┼┼┼┼
░░░#┼░░░░░
░░░#┼░░░░░
░░░#┼░░░░░

Z3
░░░░░░░░░░
░░░┼┼┼┼┼┼┼
░░░┼O═════
░░░┼║░░░░░
░░░┼║░░░░░
░░░┼║░░░░░


KEY:
┼ (Constructed Floor)
# (Constructed Fortification)
░ (Empty Space)
▒ (Empty Space, Shadow)
█ (Dirt, Grass, etc)

The fortifications overhang on the outside of the main wall, making it harder to climb up the wall. In the floor above this, the wall resumes, making the only place reachable by a horizontal jump being "outside the wall", "On top of the fortifications". 

It may be necessary to build a double parapet, making the "horizontal jump landing pad" be 2 tiles wide, with the second parapet preventing climbers. The distance at the top is too far for horizontal jumpers.

Another possible method would be to place statues on the floortiles created by the fortifications on the level above, making the tiles unpathable, and simultaneously adding value to the fortress.

Needs experimental testing. I intend to do exactly that after the release hits.

[Eric Blank]

Can item-clouds contain vermin? If so, is it possible for the vermin to be alive?

Apparently not, I remember toady saying it's not possible to make those clouds out of living things, but that it's possible to make a special item that becomes a creature or something like that, through modding... Modders are messed up.

But I may be wrong, or didn't get what you mean, can someone back me up?

To the best of my knowledge the only way to create new creatures from scratch is with DFhack, if you exclude making glorified zombies of limbs that fall off a creature you transform into.

[0rion]

Multi-tiles trees bother me; Multi-tiles buildings (bridges, workshops, depot, ...) are represented by several tiles put next to each other. And that fits to buildings.

But trees are something different as their ASCII representation is like ♣, ♠, ¶, ...
Following the same logic as for buildings, multi-tiles trees should be something like :
♣♣
♣♣
which is weird.

So my question is :
How multi-tiles trees are going to be represented in ASCII ?

[Mesa]

Multi-tiles trees bother me; Multi-tiles buildings (bridges, workshops, depot, ...) are represented by several tiles put next to each other. And that fits to buildings.

But trees are something different as their ASCII representation is like ♣, ♠, ¶, ...
Following the same logic as for buildings, multi-tiles trees should be something like :
♣♣
♣♣
which is weird.

So my question is :
How multi-tiles trees are going to be represented in ASCII ?

Toady posted images of them (quuite) some time ago, and now they are BIG, with trunk, branch (of varying thicknesses) and leaves tiles (=, -, o etc.), instead of just those tiny one-square images.