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Author Topic: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.3.2  (Read 87756 times)

Splint

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #105 on: April 03, 2012, 06:04:32 pm »

I like the sound of that emplacment interaction. It'd give a purpose to my pillboxes overlooking everything.

Abregado

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #106 on: April 04, 2012, 02:23:37 am »

New industry flowchart on in the OP.

Still some more stuff to take care of. Mainly trying to explain how the Receiving Bay works and that Isotropic rods are called "Carbide Case (fuel rod)" in the embark screen now...

might do a guilder brochure explaining the Case/Container trade system and the new shinys you can get from them....

Another question for anyone who has played the mod... What other uses do you think the isotropic fuel rod could have? We would very much like you to be forced to choose each time you buy a new one. More water means more population cap and industrial capacity, or perhaps you would like an automated plasma forge to lower the coke usage? Perhaps a synthcake cannery? Give us some ideas!

Splint

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2012, 06:19:00 am »

The plasma forge sounds like a really good idea, given the whole "lack of magma" thing. And Synthcake cannery sounds like the result of months of scavanging craploads of machine parts and using tons of left over organs mixed with various fungi to make those edible little bricks of healthy... whatever the hell they're made of.

Also, making blocks using limemilk is a little redundant if you enable rockcrete as non-economic material, as masons I think are hard-coded to be able to make rockblocks on thier own. Loving the new flow chart too, much easier to understand. If it's all good to go, I'll give this new version a test run when I get home.

Abregado

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2012, 06:07:19 pm »

The rockcrete to blocks reaction is much more efficent and far less labour intensive than the Mason blockmaking reaction. This is mainly for the community so that Megaprojects are still viable. Once you have a stable economy, and can pump out limemilk, you can really get a lot of stone blocks this way very rapidly.

When I play I also don't use this reaction often. Also if your miners die, it can take a long time to retrain one to be legendary, as we lowered their skill learn rate. This means that you can still complete constructions in a long game after losing your miners.

Even so, this reaction ill probably change to be a little more complex, and to be compatible with new industry changes as we go. I would like to see more rock industry reactions, as we have done with the timber industry.

Splint

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2012, 06:18:12 pm »

No offense, but why would humans have reduced learning abilities? As far as i can tell, the hivers are just baseline meatshields so they should learn crap normally right? Unless they're all a bunch of inbred hicks and they have some kind of mentald efficency....

Maybe a caste system would be in order here... Blah, sorry. Just me opinion, cause I mean really, you need to be stupid to be human and can't grasp "squeeze trigger, stick spinny thing in rock?" Again, sorry, just my opinion (I'd get more complex things like making heavier machinery and such having a reduced learning rate since these people aren't techpriests or from tech gangs, and probably not really qualified to even stich a person up...)

Abregado

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #110 on: April 04, 2012, 06:26:01 pm »

Its mainly because baseline skill rates are for Dwarven miners using mining picks in a fantasy game, which actually turns out to be really OP in a survival based, futuristic mod with humans.

Every single DF fort I've had started with the miner reaching Legendary status ASAP, which is funny because had they just practised on 1000 or so blocks before leaving the Mountainholmes, they would ALREADY be legendary when they arrive at your fort!

It is also to avoid people training stats on Mining and then putting the miners into the military. Another thing I feel is OP.

You might notice a lot of our design decisions are made to create a tougher environment for players, with as few of the beardy DF loopholes as possible. This I guess is in the spirit of a Total Conversion, and forces you guys to think of new ways to do things in our mod.

When we get around to castes, there will be some hivers with different skills. Before that happens we want to find the happy median baseline for hiver stats.

Abregado

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #111 on: April 04, 2012, 07:00:11 pm »

Found a version of Dwarf Therapist that works with the current Underhive Settlement build

you can get it here:
Thanks to DwarfEngineer and Splinterz for keeping this running
http://www.mediafire.com/?fkhbjvkigo4kew8

Splint

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #112 on: April 04, 2012, 07:16:39 pm »

I understand where you're coming from, and alot of what's been done makes it hard enough to get by as it is, what with wood being a bitch to come by and crops taking longer to grow. I honestly have little need to grow waxroot cause, you know, the hivers can't eat it raw and cooking it renders it useless except to make the hivers shut up anyway. And in regards to that,  rock stuff is still viable, but you gotta be extremly careful about it, starting with the heaviest crap if possible before buying food and such. All in all, with just the industry and farming overhauls an average DF player will have a nightmare of things, so making things a tough slog from the outset was done very well and I commend you.

Still, on the learning rates, damn near everything that doesn't run on plasma/ isn't the size of a small house is desgined to be so simple only someone with an Ogryn's intellect wouldn't be able to use it. I know from Corrosion you can inhibit learning rates in some skills while leaving others alone, or increasing others. such as:

Mechanics: they aren't techpriests, and how any of them have any mechanical knowlege above firearm operations would amaze me outside tech or brat gangs. 55. much slower learning rate that is perfectly reasonable.

Medical skills: I don't really think that they have medschools in the underhive. 55. again, much slower learning rate. Given what I'v'e read, it's miracle anyone surives injuries inflicted in the gang skirmishes at all.

Mining: It's a stupid drill. it'd be impossible to not become skilled with it no matter what you do. Especially since the rockdrill is designed for a semi-destructive task, no skill is needed except for the gamplay reason of actually, you know, having some stone left to work with, since half of what's there evaporates, is undiggable,  or is otherwise useless and unskilled miners digging into rockcrete/iron slag/plascrete is a waste. I think a normal learn rate is excusable for gameplay reasons. Personally, I only use miners if I have no other viable options and they're the only ones close enough to respond to a threat, as they're more valuable to a fort digging out living and storage space than getting shreded by only god knows what. And for the record, even at proficient and no other fighting skills it's really the drills that are dangerous (older version, got jumped by a wolf spider, miner tore it to shreds; she'd only dug a little ways into the hill and the hunter was busy killing a different spider)

Rifleman/crossbow: If a stupid runt from say, a fuedal world who only knows enough numbers to count how many shots a lasgun pack or autogun mag holds can learn how to use the weapons quickly, why can't hivers? the damn things seem to be everywhere, based on both fan and official descriptions. a slight boost to ranged weapons (and as a balance, melee weapon usage deficit) learning rate. Lets face it, ranged combat will be the way to go in this, espesially against wildlife and with simple weapons like stubbers and autos, a learning deficit doesn't seem to fit.


The other skills I guess is understandable, since those are things you'd really need to have a knack for to be good at it, save for weaving (if kids in the 1800s could be good loom workers, an adult hiver shouldn't have an issue with that.) Sorry if I seem demanding or anything, as that's not my intention. I'm just vomiting up my grievances since with the industry overhauls and damn near every peice of wildlife indirectly/activly wanting to make you dead, it's hard enough to survive without 2+deaths due to labor induced stupidity in year one if you leave certain labors on. (I'm looking at you, Hiver Mcdumbassfisherman and Hiver McHunterwithdeathwish)

Again, I apologize in advance or your response, just a total skill rate handicap didn't seem to fit with the basic imperial tech hivers have access to.

And now for a joke, followed by a question: If they have this much of a learning issue, a whole lot of people have been fucking thier cousins in this mod. And what the heck is Carbide? is it like, solid carbon fiber or something? That's been bugging the crap out of me not knowing what it is.

Destroid

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #113 on: April 04, 2012, 11:12:06 pm »

Only particular skills (the ones that max out very fast in normal DF games) have reduced learn rates.

Abregado

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #114 on: April 04, 2012, 11:45:34 pm »

Yeah, as Destroid said only a few skills have been reduced for gameplay reasons.

I spotted Carbide coming up a few times in both canon and fan fiction for Warhammer 40k so just went with it. I imagine it is something made with carbon fibre and from what I've read its just a basic metal/metallic compound used for making run of the mill stuff.

The starting embark has fisherman and hunting in, but as you said I wouldnt recommending using them until you have a safe area for them to work. Its tough to use unskilled hunters in this mod, so I pays to have a guy with decent skills from the get go. Whenever I play so far I set him as a guard near the wagon and then outside the settlement entrance until Im ready for hunting. The fishery skill I believe makes them take less time by the waters edge to catch something, although the quantity of fish so far seems very low.

I've completed the first How to video, dealing with Water industry stuff. Its available here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR6Dom7ZWqE&feature=youtu.be

Splint

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #115 on: April 05, 2012, 12:03:07 am »

Hmm, yeah, the number of slimes seemed pitifully low, so I just repurposed any fishery workers to mansonry work (building gates, walls, and towers and such) so they wouldn't get themselves killed trying to fish out of my sight.

I still gotta defend mining, cause unskilled miners waste alot of needed resources and since soil can't be dug through, there's already no easy way to train it aside from rock, which even a profcient starting miner has a hard time with while working alone, though the area size in the new version might be an issue, since I tend to avoid anything larger than a 2x3 embark for FPS reasons. But he was still super wasteful on the rockcrete.... I've had to take to clearing ramps to get the starter leveled enough to dig without wasting too much stone. Not that that isn't a good idea to keep animals from just poping in to kill your hivers. Overall so far though I like what I see, and I gotta ask that aside from the weapon skill, why the heck include a hunter at all? if that was a custom job those points woulda been better spent on other fighting skills and teaching to get a small fireteam up relativly easily (and easily is stretching things, with no immediate mallium available to make ammo with, or do wood/bone bullets work?) Anyway, I commend your work, and I'm looking forward to anything else you add in. Kinda shocked you didn't use a perma-werecurse type deal to make zombies contagious.

Oh, and the chosen start point may have unintentionally provided a means to try and make use of those ash jellies, if they're edible, thanks to a rockcrete deposite. If it was intended, then good call.

And seriously, the new flowchart is soooooooooooooooooooo much easier to understand!  :D

Destroid

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #116 on: April 05, 2012, 12:26:22 am »

Kinda shocked you didn't use a perma-werecurse type deal to make zombies contagious.

This will be implemented in a future version.

Abregado

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #117 on: April 05, 2012, 09:33:51 am »

updated the OP with a list of what we removed/worked around with vanilla DF. Quite a lot of stuff we took out. The idea here was that its more important for us to create a different gameplay experience than to have more gameplay than vanilla.

Abregado

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #118 on: April 05, 2012, 07:14:16 pm »

A screenshot of my current Underhive Settlement.. mostly went for aesthetics, rather than efficiency.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
WARNING its a big one

Splint

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Re: [DF 34.07] Warhammer 40k Underhive Settlement Mod - v1.2.1
« Reply #119 on: April 05, 2012, 07:58:26 pm »

It's beautiful.... Words.... Shoulda sent for a poet....
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