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[a1s]

-talks about impossibulls-

Well, that miiiight work, but even if it does, it would only rely on luck.
...
they'll just zergrush everything in sight after a lucky isolated start.

You do know that starting locations are chosen, not drawn at random, right?

[IronyOwl]

Is anyone interested in a worldbuilding thread on the first game's world?

How does that work?

We take the foundations laid by this game, the map, the empires, their basic philosophy, their history, and we build on that.
We invent cities (cities built on hexagons are sprawling metropolis, but smaller towns certainly exist all over the place), people, define the culture of the protagonists in a way that HoH didn't.
In short, we can turn it from "short forum RTS setting" to "potential RPG setting".

I'd rather do this by way of another game. Not sure what kind, but there's a lot of options.

[GreatWyrmGold]

-talks about impossibulls-

Well, that miiiight work, but even if it does, it would only rely on luck.
...
they'll just zergrush everything in sight after a lucky isolated start.

You do know that starting locations are chosen, not drawn at random, right?

There is luck in not having anyone else settle near you.

[a1s]

-talks about impossibulls-

Well, that miiiight work, but even if it does, it would only rely on luck.
...
they'll just zergrush everything in sight after a lucky isolated start.

You do know that starting locations are chosen, not drawn at random, right?

There is luck in not having anyone else settle near you.

Some luck for the mermen (it's common sense not to settle near another player, but it does happen as we've seen) , no luck whatsoever for the bulls (their reembarkation happens after everyone else (with the possible exception of other incredibulls, who died on the very same turn) has already made their choices.

[notquitethere]

Okay, I've now included Ocean Tiles, which cannot normally be expanded into or conquered (but are targetable by several terrain-changing heresies). I've got a revised species list, with a different version of Merfolk and Impossibulls.

Spoiler: Species (click to show/hide)

Human: Start with population of 2, a population cap of 2 and a minimum population of 1.
Spiders: Can Improve all year round.
Monkeys: Can Raid fortified tiles.
Antmen: Antmen fortifications give +2 defence to the tile.
Djinn:  Can Grow on desert tiles      
The Doge's Men: Owned lake tiles are +1 defense, river lines give +1 defense when defending.
Merfolk: You can expand into or conquer ocean tiles.
Parakeetkin: Can grow fields in forests.
Trolls:  Mountain tiles are +1 defence when occupied, but -1 defence when conquering and expanding.
Swine:   Harvesting a tile reaps double the population increase.
Beetleswarm: When one of your tiles is conquered, attacker loses two population.
Ents: Forests do not offer a penalty to expanding.
Letterbeasts: Can expand in Fall.
Impossibulls: Can cease to exist: on any of your turns you may take your victory score. All tiles you occupy are now uncontested and you leave the game.
Vultures: -1 action (minimum 1) required to conquer desert tiles and desert tiles give +1 defence when occupied.
Poults: Can build cities on fields and grow fields on cities without destroying either.
Ghosts:  Ignores fortifications and city defence when conquering and fortifications aren't destroyed on conquering.

Here's the latest heresy list, including slight changes to how Aquatic works and a new anti-ocean Heresy, Arid:

Spoiler: Heresies (click to show/hide)

Shaker
They like to sit and tremble in awe at the world.
Favoured Terrain: Mountains
Victory Bonus: +1 point for any mountain tile you own
Tremble - Convert a mountain tile that you own or neighbour into a plain, any fortification or city is lost on the tile.
Season: All
Cost: 2 actions
Raise - Convert a non-mountain tile you own into a mountain.
Season: All
Cost: 2 actions.

Builder
The Builders seek to urbanise the world, turning all in a citadel pointed towards eternity.
Favoured Terrain: None
Victory Bonus: +1 point for any city tile you own.
Tower - Build a city on a tile (of any kind) you own. This action can only be performed once per turn. A tile cannot be Razed and Towered in the same turn.
Season: All
Cost: 1 action
Deforest - Convert a forest tile you own into plains.
Season: All
Cost: 1 action

Aquatic
They worship the dead Leviathan, and foresee the waters reclaiming all land.
Favoured Terrain: Lakes
Victory Bonus: +1 point for any owned lake tile
Channel: Create a river line on a border that joins an existing river line. A river line cannot form the border between any tile and an ocean tile. If a non-mountain tile is completely surrounded by river lines, it turns into a lake. Example: Channel the river to the southwest of 21 to the southeast of 21. (The only direction in Hexland are NE, E, SE, SW, W and NW.). A river line cannot border an ocean tile.
Season: All
Cost: 1 action
Deluge - Turn a non-mountain tile that you own or neighbour into lake tile. If the tile is a lake tile, it instead turns into an ocean tile.
Season: All
Cost: 2 action

Merciless
They believe the final Age will be when all the world is a wasteland.
Favoured Terrain: Desert
Victory Bonus: +1 point for any owned desert tile
Scorch Earth - Convert a non-mountain tile you own into desert.
Season: All
Cost: 1 action
Brutal Raid - Raid and Raze a neighbouring tile at the same time (i.e., the tile turns to desert and is no longer owned by anyone, you gain +2 actions for razing and +2 actions if that tile had a field on it). You cannot conquer a tile on the same turn as you brutally raid it.
Season: All
Cost: 2 actions

Bountiful
They believe that the world is already a paradise and they intend to keep it that way.
Favoured Terrain: Forest
Victory Bonus: +1 point for any owned forest tile
Forage - Gain a +1 population from a forest tile. Cannot be used more than once on the same tile in the same season.
Season: Summer only.
Cost: 1 action
Fecund - Convert a plains tile you own or neighbour into a forest tile.
Season: All
Cost: 1 action

Arid
Victory Bonus: +1 for any owned non-ocean tiles that were ocean tiles at the start of play.
The Arid, survivors of doomed battles with the Leviathan, hate the ocean and call upon arcane powers to eradicate it.
Reclaim - Change a neighboring or owned ocean tile into a desert tile.
Season: All
Cost: 2 actions
Shore up - Remove all rivers bordering a single tile.  This counts as an improvement action.
Season: Summer, Winter
Cost: 1 action


Heterodox
The tolerant Heterodox embrace diversity and cultural interchange, believing that the truth is a prism that splits enlightenment into many beams.
Favoured Terrain: None
Victory Bonus: +2 points for every civilisation alive at the end of the game.
Co-opt - For this turn only, gain the species power of any other species currently in play.
Season: All (can only be used once per season)
Cost: 1 action
Mimic - For this turn only, gain the favoured terrain of one other civilisation currently in play.
Season: Any (once a season only)
Cost: 1 action

Vile
These ne'er-do-wells have dedicated their life to destruction and suffering.
Favoured Terrain: None
Victory Bonus: +1 point for every time a civilisation is wiped out.
Sacrifice - Reduce your population by one (down to your minimum population: if you have three cities and five population, you can only sacrifice once). Gain two additional actions for this turn only.
Season: All
Cost: 1 action
Enslave - Conquer a hex and gain +1 population at the end of your turn instead of losing population (when you conquer, your pop cap always increases anyway).
Season: Fall and Autumn
Cost: 2 actions + defence of the terrain

Apostate
These are the heretic's heretics, splinter movements that have strange beliefs and little coherence.
Favoured Terrain: None
Victory Bonus: None
Apocryphal Dogma - When you choose Apostate, pick two actions belonging to any other heresies (say, Brutal Raid and Deluge). These are your actions and they have the same restrictions as normal.

[EDIT]

And here's the new map. If anyone wants to try their hand at rejigging it to make colours pop out more, or have a legible font that doesn't take up the whole of the tile, go right ahead.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is most likely going to be the map we play:


Here again, with bolder lines:


This is it without numbers, if you've got image editing software (Paint) then feel free to have a play around with it:

[Dariush]

So merfolk are invulnerable after conquering an ocean tile? I still don't like it. Also, requesting the renaming of Merciless. Maybe something like Levelers?

Also, claiming tile 113.

[notquitethere]

So merfolk are invulnerable after conquering an ocean tile? I still don't like it. Also, requesting the renaming of Merciless. Maybe something like Levelers?

Also, claiming tile 113.

Here's why I don't think it's a bad thing: ocean tiles are unproductive (if a merfolk player expands only into the sea, then they won't have very good population development), other players have a huge incentive to transform ocean tiles into land, ocean tiles don't count towards your victory total, there's no cap on the number of Merfolk allowed in play.

Leveller isn't a bad suggestion. Doesn't alliterate with 'monkeys' though 

Also, claiming tile 113.

Claims will be in turn order, which is decided by population then species+heresy order (I'll be juggling around the species list a bit to put the less likely to be picked heresies and species early in the order).


I'm probably going to start this in about six hours time (10PM GMT), so if anyone wants to reserve a spot in advance or play around with the map or put forward any last minute objections to the set up, now's probably the time to do it. I'll be creating a new thread, but I'll link to it here.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'd argue that the merfolk are a bit underpowered, for the reasons you've explained above. Maybe let them set up fishing nets or something, at least?

Spoiler: The Lakers (click to show/hide)

Color: Blue
Heresy: Aquatic
Species: Merfolk
Population: 1/(1-1)

I'll choose where to start once the tiles are numbered.

Tile 102 sounds good.

[notquitethere]

I'd argue that the merfolk are a bit underpowered, for the reasons you've explained above. Maybe let them set up fishing nets or something, at least?

If you think they're underpowered and Dariush thinks they're overpowered, then I think I've pitched it about right 

Which of the maps did you find most readable?

[GreatWyrmGold]

True enough.

Definitely the second.

[Dariush]

Here's why I don't think it's a bad thing: ocean tiles are unproductive (if a merfolk player expands only into the sea, then they won't have very good population development), other players have a huge incentive to transform ocean tiles into land, ocean tiles don't count towards your victory total, there's no cap on the number of Merfolk allowed in play.

Still nope: if a player without any terraforming powers fights merfolks, he can reduce them to a single ocean tile and they'll still be able to attack and pester him while he won't be able to do anything in return. Maybe instead set the oceans to some huge defence number (3?) which merfolk ignore?

I'm probably going to start this in about six hours time (10PM GMT), so if anyone wants to reserve a spot in advance or play around with the map or put forward any last minute objections to the set up, now's probably the time to do it. I'll be creating a new thread, but I'll link to it here.

Start the game despite only two people having joined?

As to the map, #1 with smaller numbers would be optimal, IMO.

[notquitethere]

Ah, what I meant was I'll start a new thread with open sign ups and finalised set-up in 6 hours time. I'll add you and GWG to the sign up list. Game starts when I get enough players. I'll consider your defence suggestion for oceans.

[notquitethere]

Well I got home and remembered that I'd knee'd my keyboard to death accidentally the day before so typing anything was somewhat out of the question. No matter.

Heretics of Hexland 2 is now open for sign-ups!