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Author Topic: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!  (Read 18460 times)

a1s

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #135 on: February 19, 2014, 10:23:34 am »

is forage really going to stay the same as last time? 1 action to gain a pop for every forest is pretty powerful...
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notquitethere

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #136 on: February 19, 2014, 10:24:41 am »

Reserved.
Noted.

is forage really going to stay the same as last time? 1 action to gain a pop for every forest is pretty powerful...
Ah, no. I'll just amend that...



Some specific questions I have about the revised set-up:

Are all of the Heresies interesting to play?
Do all the species give worthwhile options?
Are there any species or heresies that give overwhelming benefits?

The main changes are:
- Growing creates a field which can then be harvested in Fall, population is capped at territories + cities.
- Fortifying is now an improvements and improvements can only be done in Summer and Winter.
- The map is rejigged with rivers on the borders of tiles, and there's 150 tiles in total, 30 of each type.
- Heresies now give additional points for doing things as well as holding territory, and each of them has two actions attached.
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notquitethere

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #137 on: February 19, 2014, 10:48:33 am »

Questions:
1) Conquer states 'All fields and fortifications in the conquered hex are destroyed'. Shouldn't this be more along the lines of 'A field (singular) and fortification (singular) in the conquered hex are destroyed, if either is present'?
That would be clearer, yes.

2) When Djinn harvest on a desert field, does it turn into a desert or a plain?
It turns back into a plain (as fields are terrain-types, not terrain improvements).[/quote]

3) Does removing a river affect the rivers it connects to in any way? Or can rivers just sit in the middle of the continent, not discharging anywhere?
At the moment, they can just sit around not discharging. I guess at that point they're really just super-long lakes, like Loch Ness.

4) Please make the rivers bluer and thicker. They are really hard to see at present.
Yeah I was thinking that. Guess I'll have to redraw the map...

5) How can there be lakes bordering the ocean? o_0
Maybe think of them as 'swampy land', kind of like how Venice is in a swamp connected to the ocean, or large river-mouths, or fresh-water lagoons.

6) What does Human race do, exactly? Is their population range hardlocked to 1-2? If no, what does 'population cap' mean?
Population cap is the most your population can go up to. You can increase your cap by conquering more territories or building cities. Everyone starts with a cap of '1', except humans who have a cap of '2' and start with two population. This essentially gives them a sprint start to the game at the expense of later advantages.

And do I take it right that their minimum population is lower than that of other races?
No, I was just clarifying that they, like everyone else, starts off with a minimum of 1. If you conquer or get conquered, your population reduces but it can't be reduced to lower than your minimum pop.

7) Do you really think that having optimal picks (for example, I don't see Djinn working with anything except Merciless and Merciless working with anything except Djinn) is a good idea?
Merciless monkeys would be fine. Some kind of Djinn Apostate would be viable. Merciless humans would have a lot of speed for conquering. A builder Djinn would be able to settle in the desert where most other players wouldn't want to go. If you can think of some additions or changes, then I'm all ears.
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Dariush

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #138 on: February 19, 2014, 10:52:22 am »

It turns back into a plain (as fields are terrain-types, not terrain improvements).
So... harvesting from a desert works as a pseudo-irrigation that turns deserts into plains? Well, that's a bit strange, but okay. I guess that undermines the Merciless Djinn combo a bit.

I added four more questions while you were writing that post.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #139 on: February 19, 2014, 10:55:02 am »

Make the rivers more visible, maybe by removing some of those lines. If you need them for filling, you could make them beige or something.
On that note, why do some inner/outer borders of lakes have Rivers between them but not all?

Why would someone want Brutal Raid when they can just Raid and then Raze/
Why can mimic not be used in Spring or Fall?
Apostate seems...interesting.

Impossibulls seem mildly OP and are apparently based on a bad pun.

Are we signing up now?

It turns back into a plain (as fields are terrain-types, not terrain improvements).
So... harvesting from a desert works as a pseudo-irrigation that turns deserts into plains? Well, that's a bit strange, but okay. I guess that undermines the Merciless Djinn combo a bit.
Indeed.
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a1s

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #140 on: February 19, 2014, 11:21:27 am »

Why would someone want Brutal Raid when they can just Raid and then Raze/
You raze your own tiles and raid other people's tiles. Conquering a tile (for the purposes of then razing it) will cost you a population.

I have some questions of my own.

  • if Raze, brutal raid and sacrifice give you more actions, wouldn't it be simpler to just say they have cost:-1 (0 in the case of BR), rather than
    "costs 1 action and gives 2"? And is that reading of the situation, in fact, correct, or did I miss something?
  • Do bountiful swine get the bonus when foraging?
  • Do humans only start with a population cap of 2, or do they get a +1 pop cap bonus for the whole game?
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notquitethere

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #141 on: February 19, 2014, 11:44:47 am »

What do people think about the number of players? Is six about right? More, less? What about the map size? I want to encourage player interaction, but I don't want competent players being wiped out in the first year just because they're last in the turn order.



Dariush
So... harvesting from a desert works as a pseudo-irrigation that turns deserts into plains? Well, that's a bit strange, but okay. I guess that undermines the Merciless Djinn combo a bit.
Yeah, thematically, they have the power to tap into hidden oases in the desert.

8) What are the rules about expanding/conquering lakes? I see that they have penalties (in merfolk text), but not what those penalties actually are.
Just like every other tile, it costs additional actions equal to the defence of the tile (i.e. it costs 2 actions). They're relatively inexpensive to capture but expensive to turn into anything useful.

9) Vile seems rather UP. If every single other civ is conquered, they only earn 5 VP. Tile-based heresies earn the same 5 VP by merely expanding a bit. Maybe upgrade that +1 to +2?
Possibly... you can still win by just getting lots of territories, and their ability to enslave and sacrifice means they're pretty good at conquering and expanding.

10) Proposal: instead of enclosing every single tile a player owns, instead enclose their entire territory in one continuous border. That should improve map readability quite a bit.
I'll try it out. The new map style is designed to make it easy for me to make changes, so if I can do this simply and make it look good and clear then I will.

11) Why did you turn a beatiful continent with believable shores into a rectangle? :'(
Yeah, I've now decided that's just a test map. I'm going to keep all the same tiles but juggle them around until it looks nice.

GWG
Make the rivers more visible, maybe by removing some of those lines. If you need them for filling, you could make them beige or something.
I'll play around with the sizes and colours until I get something a bit clearer.


On that note, why do some inner/outer borders of lakes have Rivers between them but not all?
That was a colouring in oversight: just goes to show I should definitely make the rivers look clearer!

Why would someone want Brutal Raid when they can just Raid and then Raze/
Why can mimic not be used in Spring or Fall?
Apostate seems...interesting.
You can't normally raze tiles you don't own. Is that not worth it?

The mimic rational was that it is only useful for building cities on terrain you wouldn't normally be able to build cities on, and you can only improve in Summer/Winter. I'll change this as I now realise a player might want synergy from choosing Heterodox Spider.

Impossibulls seem mildly OP and are apparently based on a bad pun.
A player who is wiped out probably isn't going to win and it doesn't give any benefits to actions so I don't think it's all that over powered.

Are we signing up now?
You can do.

a1s
I have some questions of my own.

if Raze, brutal raid and sacrifice give you more actions, wouldn't it be simpler to just say they have cost:-1 (0 in the case of BR), rather than
"costs 1 action and gives 2"? And is that reading of the situation, in fact, correct, or did I miss something?
I need to clarify this in the text, but you can brutal raid plains tiles as well (though you only get the raid action bonus if it's field you're raiding), so the action either costs nothing to turn your neighbour's plain into an unowned desert, or you gain two actions if it's a field.

They don't cost -1 action, strictly speaking, as you need an available action to use them in the first place.

Do bountiful swine get the bonus when foraging?
No. Should be they?

Do humans only start with a population cap of 2, or do they get a +1 pop cap bonus for the whole game?
I thought it simpler to give them it for the whole game. With the changes to turn order and population growth, this shouldn't be too big an advantage.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 11:53:36 am by notquitethere »
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Dariush

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #142 on: February 19, 2014, 11:54:16 am »

Impossibulls seem mildly OP and are apparently based on a bad pun.
A player who is wiped out probably isn't going to win and it doesn't give any benefits to actions so I don't think it's all that over powered.
Uh, what's the point of allowing (or rather forcing, since they don't seem to get a choice) a player to continue playing with almost hope of winning? Just so they can mess with and annoy the other players? I vote for axing this race.
What do people think about the number of players? Is six about right? More, less? What about the map size? I want to encourage player interaction, but I don't want competent players being wiped out in the first year just because they're last in the turn order.
I think a larger map and more players would be nice.

Also, proposal: change merfolk bonus to 'cannot grow and harvest, but gains a special two-point spring-only action that increases the population by 1 and the number of times this action is used cannot exceed the number of owned lakes'. It's strange that merfolk currently don't get any actual benefit from actually possessing water tiles. This way they'll become a proper underwater race.

kaian-a-coel

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #143 on: February 19, 2014, 12:24:44 pm »

Is anyone interested in a worldbuilding thread on the first game's world?
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #144 on: February 19, 2014, 01:50:49 pm »

Is anyone interested in a worldbuilding thread on the first game's world?
Sounds neat.

Spoiler: The Lakers (click to show/hide)
I'll choose where to start once the tiles are numbered.
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notquitethere

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #145 on: February 19, 2014, 02:32:37 pm »

Uh, what's the point of allowing (or rather forcing, since they don't seem to get a choice) a player to continue playing with almost hope of winning? Just so they can mess with and annoy the other players? I vote for axing this race.
They get a choice. Thinking a bit more, I reckon choosing it might be a viable strategy for a Vile or Heterodox player. If the player dies in the first year then they'll still have a fair chance at winning.

I think a larger map and more players would be nice.
My only worry is that it'll take forever to process lots of people.

Also, proposal: change merfolk bonus to 'cannot grow and harvest, but gains a special two-point spring-only action that increases the population by 1 and the number of times this action is used cannot exceed the number of owned lakes'. It's strange that merfolk currently don't get any actual benefit from actually possessing water tiles. This way they'll become a proper underwater race.
Yeah, I see where your coming from but for consistency sake, the species give you rule changes while the Heresies introduce new actions.

Here's an idea though, merfolk lake tiles give +1 to their population cap.
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a1s

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #146 on: February 19, 2014, 02:34:11 pm »

Is anyone interested in a worldbuilding thread on the first game's world?
How does that work?



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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #147 on: February 19, 2014, 02:36:41 pm »

Is anyone interested in a worldbuilding thread on the first game's world?
How does that work?
Which part, spaceman?
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Dariush

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #148 on: February 19, 2014, 02:42:44 pm »

Uh, what's the point of allowing (or rather forcing, since they don't seem to get a choice) a player to continue playing with almost hope of winning? Just so they can mess with and annoy the other players? I vote for axing this race.
They get a choice. Thinking a bit more, I reckon choosing it might be a viable strategy for a Vile or Heterodox player. If the player dies in the first year then they'll still have a fair chance at winning.
Well, that miiiight work, but even if it does, it would only rely on luck. I still don't like it and would like to see it removed.
Also, proposal: change merfolk bonus to 'cannot grow and harvest, but gains a special two-point spring-only action that increases the population by 1 and the number of times this action is used cannot exceed the number of owned lakes'. It's strange that merfolk currently don't get any actual benefit from actually possessing water tiles. This way they'll become a proper underwater race.
Yeah, I see where your coming from but for consistency sake, the species give you rule changes while the Heresies introduce new actions.

Here's an idea though, merfolk lake tiles give +1 to their population cap.
Then let's halve the cap from non-lakes (so it gives 0.5), give 1.5 from lakes and have no penalties for attacking lakes (but still being there for attacking across rivers). Otherwise they'll just zergrush everything in sight after a lucky isolated start.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 02:48:45 pm by Dariush »
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kaian-a-coel

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Re: Heretics of Hexland - GAME OVER - Long Live the East Hexian Empire!
« Reply #149 on: February 19, 2014, 03:18:38 pm »

Is anyone interested in a worldbuilding thread on the first game's world?
How does that work?
We take the foundations laid by this game, the map, the empires, their basic philosophy, their history, and we build on that.
We invent cities (cities built on hexagons are sprawling metropolis, but smaller towns certainly exist all over the place), people, define the culture of the protagonists in a way that HoH didn't.
In short, we can turn it from "short forum RTS setting" to "potential RPG setting".
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