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Author Topic: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___  (Read 313806 times)

TD1

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1335 on: April 08, 2015, 10:26:40 pm »

Minor 3rd book GoT spoilers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Forgive the quality. Written at 4am. Probably edit it in morning.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 10:29:10 pm by Th4DwArfY1 »
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Poetry Thread

bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1336 on: April 08, 2015, 10:33:17 pm »

Well, for what it's worth, I appreciate the time you put into looking at my piece bahihs - thanks.

Looking over your edits, I've got a problem with using too many adverbs - it's a known problem, which tends to come up in my first drafts. I also tend to repeat words, although it looks like I managed to mostly avoid that particular pitfall this time around.

No thanks necessary AlStar; its what we're all here for, after all :)

I have a bit of a cognitive bias against adjectives in that I think that the more you use them the more you tell and don't show. There's some basis in fact in it, but mostly it's just being picky. It is however, a good exercise to partake in; wherever you see an adjective in the story see if you can describe the action in a sentence or two to paint a more vivid image.

If you don't like poetry, take some flash fiction:

I've already had a workshop on this last piece and it's become apparent that there are some errors in paragraph formatting, which I have yet to fix, and also that it needs some cleaning up. But I figured i'd post it anyways. The original story was just about Diego and his sandals, but thing just kind of changed. I think I might rewrite it to focus more on the sandals and fix some POV problems.

Anyways, have fun, go to town, etc. etc. always looking for critique.

Spoiler: My edits to the story (click to show/hide)

No comment on the poetry (untamed animal, poetry).

Once again the critique is divided into two parts, writing and story.

See the above edits for the writing. I'll have to take another pass at it to be thorough but my initial impressions are: too many cliched expressions (I consider any metaphor which I've seen at least once, to be cliched), use of adverbs where a more descriptive verb would do (once or twice), too much vacillation ("seems" or "looked" instead of just "was"), use of passive voice in some places, and replacement of "said" with other verbs or adverbs. The descriptions are top notch, however.

As for the story, very interesting. I'm not 100% sure what the ending entails (if it's what I think it is, then it was a great twist) but everything is nicely paced (despite the length). Too short to say anything more.
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1337 on: April 08, 2015, 10:41:32 pm »

@Th4DwArfY1

I'm curious, what or who are your favorite poems/poets? Your poems are very advanced when it comes to meter and rhyme; I'm curious to know who has bled on you.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1338 on: April 08, 2015, 11:01:10 pm »

Thanks for the critique and the compliment! Super helpful actually. Just have to collate with with what my teacher has written now.

As for poetry, its cool that you don't want to critique it, but if I may ask, do you like more classical structure in poetry or are you all about that free verse poetry?
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1339 on: April 08, 2015, 11:19:16 pm »

Thanks for the critique and the compliment! Super helpful actually. Just have to collate with with what my teacher has written now.

As for poetry, its cool that you don't want to critique it, but if I may ask, do you like more classical structure in poetry or are you all about that free verse poetry?

No thanks necessary, but your very welcome :)

I wish I could say I love both but having tasted both, my tongue prefers classical rhyme and meter. There has only ever been two exceptions: the KJV bible (psalms, song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes in particular) and Whitman (who's stuff eerily reminds me of the KJV bible).

The more lyrical the poetry is (while still retaining its meaning) the better IMO. Poe,  Tennyson, Blake, and Kipling are some of my favorite poets.
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TD1

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1340 on: April 09, 2015, 07:20:49 am »

@Th4DwArfY1

I'm curious, what or who are your favorite poems/poets? Your poems are very advanced when it comes to meter and rhyme; I'm curious to know who has bled on you.
I finished Lord of the Rings two years ago about this time of year, and my favourite parts were the poems. So I started trying to write, and read some poetry too.

I love Tennyson's Forward the Light Brigade,
Some of Yeat's stuff,
Do Not go Gentle Into That Good Night. (The only Thomas poem I like)
Walter de la Mare's The Listener's
Wordsworth (Daffodils!)
T.S Eliot's Wasteland.
And for a bit of variety, the odd Gerarld Manley Hopkins.

As a rule, I like ordered poetry with good rhymes that interweave well with the plot/story/theme. As a result, I suppose I try to shadow the classical greats. I'm particulary fond of some of the Romantic era poetry. The idealised view of the world is refreshing given today's cynicism.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 07:36:42 am by Th4DwArfY1 »
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1341 on: April 09, 2015, 08:51:05 am »

I posted this one a while back, but I don't think anyone gave me any critique on it. It's significantly more rhythmical with more consistent meter. Though the last verse diverges from the format entirely. But you might enjoy this one more. So here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On the topic of structured versus free verse, I think I agree with you Bahihs, but what I write is generally a bit more free verse-y. In terms of actual structure, rhythm, and rhyming though I love Poe, Dickinson, and also Whitman. I also like tolkien's poetry. Once poems become aggressively rhyme-y or repetitive, even if they maintain their meaning/story, they lose me.

EDIT: Though I think I feel like writing something I little more well structured and rhyming.
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1342 on: April 09, 2015, 02:02:33 pm »

@Th4DwArfY1

I'm curious, what or who are your favorite poems/poets? Your poems are very advanced when it comes to meter and rhyme; I'm curious to know who has bled on you.
I finished Lord of the Rings two years ago about this time of year, and my favourite parts were the poems. So I started trying to write, and read some poetry too.

I love Tennyson's Forward the Light Brigade,
Some of Yeat's stuff,
Do Not go Gentle Into That Good Night. (The only Thomas poem I like)
Walter de la Mare's The Listener's
Wordsworth (Daffodils!)
T.S Eliot's Wasteland.
And for a bit of variety, the odd Gerarld Manley Hopkins.

As a rule, I like ordered poetry with good rhymes that interweave well with the plot/story/theme. As a result, I suppose I try to shadow the classical greats. I'm particulary fond of some of the Romantic era poetry. The idealised view of the world is refreshing given today's cynicism.

I find your fondness of Romantic poetry hilariously ironic, considering that poetic cynicism arose, in part, as a response to Romanticism becoming too stale. How the wheel turns! And the cosmic ballet goes on...

May I recommend the poems of Poe (so poetic he's a poet to the "t"), if you haven't read them already? I personally like "Israfel" and "The Conqueror Worm". I consider Poe to be one of the true masters of rhyme and meter.

I posted this one a while back, but I don't think anyone gave me any critique on it. It's significantly more rhythmical with more consistent meter. Though the last verse diverges from the format entirely. But you might enjoy this one more. So here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On the topic of structured versus free verse, I think I agree with you Bahihs, but what I write is generally a bit more free verse-y. In terms of actual structure, rhythm, and rhyming though I love Poe, Dickinson, and also Whitman. I also like tolkien's poetry. Once poems become aggressively rhyme-y or repetitive, even if they maintain their meaning/story, they lose me.

EDIT: Though I think I feel like writing something I little more well structured and rhyming.

I think the main thing with any sort of rhythmic structure is to ensure that there's no (what I like to call) "rhyme strain". That is, when the word choice or order is made awkward to fit the rhyme and meter. This is the hardest thing about writing structured poetry (I find) and its elimination is the best proof of poetic mastery.

For example, consider this stanza from Poe:

But see, amid the mimic rout,
   A crawling shape intrude!
A blood-red thing that writhes from out   
   The scenic solitude!
It writhes!—it writhes!—with mortal pangs   
The mimes become its food,
And seraphs sob at vermin fangs
   In human gore imbued.

The line breaks are chosen to retain rhyming but also to prevent rhyme strain. Consider also, Tennyson:

A man upon a stall may find,
   And, passing, turn the page that tells
   A grief, then changed to something else,
Sung by a long-forgotten mind.

But what of that? My darken’d ways
   Shall ring with music all the same;
   To breathe my loss is more than fame,
To utter love more sweet than praise.

Again, the line breaks are chosen carefully to ensure "flow". The best poems are those that couldn't be written in any other way; where the rhyme scheme seems almost accidental, and the words fall in place like hummed notes in a half-finished tune. If the poet can push structure into the background, he has mastered it. Of course all this is merely my opinion, like I said, poetry is an untamed animal. It's difficult to find a foothold in a hurricane.

Its why I don't "measure" poetry; I don't believe poetry is written for anyone other than the poet (or shouldn't be, anyway). If the poet is satisfied, it is enough.

 

 
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Angle

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1343 on: April 10, 2015, 06:04:32 pm »

So I wrote a thing. It seems kinda meh, though...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1344 on: April 10, 2015, 07:52:08 pm »

@Angle. Seems really interesting. Either he's bad at electronics or it's all really bad luck. I'm not good at scrutinizing stories, but I managed to find a few small errors: you wrote 'do' instead of 'due', and 'over her glasses' instead of 'through her glasses'. You'll probably have to wait on someone else to get a full critique.
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1345 on: April 10, 2015, 09:08:17 pm »

So I wrote a thing. It seems kinda meh, though...

*Cracks knuckles* Lets get to it!
Spoiler: My edits to the story (click to show/hide)

As usual two parts, writing and story:

Writing: Avoided most of the cardinal sins which was good. Some tense shenanigans but general avoidance of unnecessary qualifiers. Some cliched expressions, but the dialog is simple and to point (i.e good) as is most of the writing.

Story: Pretty cool. I'd like to see more before I do any serious critique (i.e where are you going with this?).

EDIT: I'm going to use a different set of marks for the edits as [] seem to have strange effects with certain characters. So the new set is:

(string) = Add (string)
string= Delete string
{string}->{nstring} = rearrange/replace string as nstring
#string# = string is a comment
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 09:14:25 pm by bahihs »
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Cryxis, Prince of Doom

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1346 on: April 10, 2015, 09:20:37 pm »

So I'm trying to work on my descriptiveness, help wanted, coments and criticism welcome.


The Mantle Falls: Introduction
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Any specific grammar that needs work or just all of it? I understand it was painful to read but thank you for whoever reads it and can give helpful comments.
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1347 on: April 10, 2015, 10:29:42 pm »

So I'm trying to work on my descriptiveness, help wanted, coments and criticism welcome.

Any specific grammar that needs work or just all of it? I understand it was painful to read but thank you for whoever reads it and can give helpful comments.

Two in one day? *Puts on shades* Here we go. Yeeeeaaaaahhhh!

Spoiler: My edits (click to show/hide)

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Cryxis, Prince of Doom

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1348 on: April 11, 2015, 12:40:19 am »

Thanks .-. I can't grammar...
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Angle

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1349 on: April 11, 2015, 01:15:21 am »

Spoiler: My edits to the story (click to show/hide)

Hmm. So mostly you're edits look pretty good, but a few puzzle me. In particular, many of them seem like they're designed to make the writing sound more generic, and less characterised? I went ahead and selected the relevant sections in red. Is this a thing people are advised to do when writing? Because I was actually going in rather the opposite direction with this snippet, and trying to exaggerate that kind of thing.
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