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Author Topic: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.  (Read 373287 times)

Neonivek

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2310 on: March 18, 2013, 02:50:04 pm »

Well Triple A games are kinda different then a triple A studio.

Most games that are released commercially are not triple A games. Heck I don't even think Starcraft was a Triple A at the time.

The reason why Triple A games tend to be rather "safe" is mostly because they are extremely expencive, the reason they are so lowest common denominator is because they HAVE to appeal to a wide audiance or else they will fail (If a triple A game doesn't sell millions of copies they lose money).

It is something indie games don't have to deal with. Indie games can appeal to a niche market and can rely on anywhere from a hundred to a thousand sales and thus they are not constrained by the market.

Where Triple-A games can be criticised, however, is that the market for them is larger then producers and developers think it is and that they are often done purely for money. Which the issue isn't that they want to make money but rather that a lot of these games feel almost entirely about the money. Which given that games are often considered a form of artistic expression it means that triple As are often like terrible but popular popsongs that are manufactured to sell.

My disapointment isn't that triple A games are usually bland and unchallenging. My disapointment is that even a lot of the non-triple A titles are going for gold. While my disapointment in indie games is a lot of them just take certain elements of "classics" but don't pull them off to the same degree or polish of the same games they are taking from.

Note: I am using the definition of Triple A to refer to the production and not the sale.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 02:57:45 pm by Neonivek »
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Pnx

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2311 on: March 18, 2013, 03:09:05 pm »

Indy guys dont take 'risks' in the same manner that a Triple A studio does. If an indy game makes a game that. Its entirely unfair and almost entirely unrelateable to use risk in the same manner for Indy and Tripple A studio.

Also, Indy Guys, most of them, almost all of them, arent doing anything all that clever or innovative. Their crap curve is about the same as with everyone, but with the added bonus of overall lower production quality.
I seriously want to know which Triple A studios you've been paying attention to that actually take risks. Most of them seem to be only interested in churning out one generic shooter after the next.
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MrWiggles

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2312 on: March 18, 2013, 04:03:16 pm »

Indy guys dont take 'risks' in the same manner that a Triple A studio does. If an indy game makes a game that. Its entirely unfair and almost entirely unrelateable to use risk in the same manner for Indy and Tripple A studio.

Also, Indy Guys, most of them, almost all of them, arent doing anything all that clever or innovative. Their crap curve is about the same as with everyone, but with the added bonus of overall lower production quality.
I seriously want to know which Triple A studios you've been paying attention to that actually take risks. Most of them seem to be only interested in churning out one generic shooter after the next.
Then every studio that doesnt do a shooter then. Video games arent short on genres.
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MrWiggles

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2313 on: March 18, 2013, 04:21:25 pm »

Well Triple A games are kinda different then a triple A studio.

Most games that are released commercially are not triple A games. Heck I don't even think Starcraft was a Triple A at the time.
Blizzard was fairly successful company by the time that Starcraft rolled around, with having D1 and WC2 being great hits, along with their moderate console titles, that everyone has forgotten.

Quote
The reason why Triple A games tend to be rather "safe" is mostly because they are extremely expencive, the reason they are so lowest common denominator is because they HAVE to appeal to a wide audiance or else they will fail (If a triple A game doesn't sell millions of copies they lose money).
The folks that make the game, tend to get paid less if they were working in other industries. So, its not really the money there either. Production Studios, tend to be more about the money, but it is their money on the line, and if they keep investing in games that cant do RoI, they'll be out of business too. Its not bad that games are commercial.

Quote
It is something indie games don't have to deal with. Indie games can appeal to a niche market and can rely on anywhere from a hundred to a thousand sales and thus they are not constrained by the market.

Where Triple-A games can be criticised, however, is that the market for them is larger then producers and developers think it is and that they are often done purely for money. Which the issue isn't that they want to make money but rather that a lot of these games feel almost entirely about the money. Which given that games are often considered a form of artistic expression it means that triple As are often like terrible but popular popsongs that are manufactured to sell.
You're contradicting yourself. You cant bemoan Triple A studio for not making a 'niche' game, while admitting they need to sell millions when the market is only a few thousand.

Quote
My disapointment isn't that triple A games are usually bland and unchallenging. My disapointment is that even a lot of the non-triple A titles are going for gold. While my disapointment in indie games is a lot of them just take certain elements of "classics" but don't pull them off to the same degree or polish of the same games they are taking from.

Note: I am using the definition of Triple A to refer to the production and not the sale.
I wouldnt call most triple A games bland. Their storyworld can be pretty neat and have enveloped our modern story culture thingy. Look at Dishonored, as a fairly recent addition. I also wouldnt call them unchallenging. Challenge is pretty personal word there. Theres lot of challenge in older games, which are artifical and or just totally unfair. Just as an arbitrarily example, I was playing through King Quest 1, and that game was fairly hard but it wasnt hard because of player agency but because the game was just being a dick. Like, first screen, I walked right into the moat. That was balls, even back then. And there other things like, the Parser isnt as neat as it should be, like searching the tree stump for the bag in it. That requires very particular verbage to do.



And yea, I do agree that a lot of Indy games are just clamoring for 8-bit classic, or whatever, while falling fairly short of the polish and tenacity that the 8-bit classic had.

[EDIT Missed One Quote.]
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 09:51:44 pm by MrWiggles »
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Pnx

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2314 on: March 18, 2013, 04:36:30 pm »

When I think of all the innovative games that were made by small studios or even just individuals in the past five years or so I can think of at least a dozen or so games. That were very creative, interesting games, like everything by Edmund Mcmillan, or world of goo, or all the other crazy puzzlers that are honestly starting to feel a little gimmicky nowadays.

Yet when I try to think of ones that weren't created by indie studios, I come up with very few results, and most of them weren't even all that creative.
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Neonivek

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2315 on: March 18, 2013, 05:43:47 pm »

Quote
You're contradicting yourself. You cant bemoan Triple A studio for not making a 'niche' game, while admitting they need to sell millions when the market is only a few thousand

There is no contradiction and you are mistaking explaining to bemoanment.

Quote
I also wouldnt call them unchallenging. Challenge is pretty personal word there. Theres lot of challenge in older games, which are artifical and or just totally unfair.

No I think unchallenging is the perfect word. Triple-A games are specifically designed to challenge the player as little as possible and to curve its difficulty range so that EVERYONE can win. While many classic games attempted to lengthen their games unjustly through difficulty, which I won't deny happened, the idea of the player needing to learn to play the game BETTER was still there.

Is it all of them? Of course not, but when a challenging and deep triple-A is called an exception...

As well Kings Quest's difficulty is not contained in its death ratio (Though... The Clouds were absolutely terrible) but rather in your ability to solve its puzzles. You would be surprised how often you would stop dying once you kind of understand the game. Mind you Kings Quest 1 doesn't hold up but that was why the series improved as it went on reaching its perfection of gameplay in the 6th (which actually would likely be a Triple-A classic game). The first time I played KQ1 I knew to avoid that rock and push it from the other side.

Though if you want to know who would win between ONLY triple-A games and classic games? It is classic games hands down. Many of the best titles released in the past years weren't triple-As. Tripple-As are a very small subgroup of modern games.

---

My tip for your future Point and Click game is that to remember that the challenge of those games, and really what I love about them, is that you have to bend your thinking. The games are all about your mental ability to think as the game does and understand the world around you.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 05:53:38 pm by Neonivek »
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Shades

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2316 on: April 18, 2013, 06:26:56 am »

I think I am getting close to the point where I am just going to cheat to unlock all the ships. So many of them just feel like busy work if I am not using a guide and others are two tiers of luck.

I wonder if that is possible or if they prevent you from doing so.

It's easy to do you can just alter the flags in your save file, and something I did a long time ago. However can I recommend you don't just unlock everything, after doing so I pretty much played each ship once and haven't ever gone back to the game. I think it killed my enjoyment of a game I liked until that point.
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Neonivek

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2317 on: April 18, 2013, 06:39:43 am »

I think I am getting close to the point where I am just going to cheat to unlock all the ships. So many of them just feel like busy work if I am not using a guide and others are two tiers of luck.

I wonder if that is possible or if they prevent you from doing so.

It's easy to do you can just alter the flags in your save file, and something I did a long time ago. However can I recommend you don't just unlock everything, after doing so I pretty much played each ship once and haven't ever gone back to the game. I think it killed my enjoyment of a game I liked until that point.

I've almost unlocked some ships many times... but they require psychic ability and a lot of luck to get. ("What? You said the wrong thing in a speech tree? Sorry you don't get our ship. Hope you come back here with the right crew members to speak to us, the right technology to help us, and pick the right combination of things to say bye!")

If unlocking all the ships at once is what ruins the game for me, then this game had irresolvable issues.

I appreciate challenge but not busy work linked to a small percent chance. As well I consider picking up a guide for many of these to be as bad as unlocking them manually.
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Shades

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2318 on: April 18, 2013, 06:49:57 am »

If unlocking all the ships at once is what ruins the game for me, then this game had irresolvable issues.

I appreciate challenge but not busy work linked to a small percent chance. As well I consider picking up a guide for many of these to be as bad as unlocking them manually.

In that case you may find it worth while. Either way it's easy to do, but I thought I should warn just in case :)
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Neonivek

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2319 on: April 18, 2013, 06:53:58 am »

It just feels bad visiting unlock points and not knowing the exact sequence of events you are supposed to take to get the prize.

It feels especially cheap since you just know you were intended to read a guide and that everyone who plays uses a guide.

Guides really bug me in that they are such a crutch of game design. All you have to do to realize this is just not use a guide, then read the reviews and see that almost all of them used a guide.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 07:17:18 am by Neonivek »
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Wiles

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2320 on: April 19, 2013, 01:10:16 am »

Guides really bug me in that they are such a crutch of game design. All you have to do to realize this is just not use a guide, then read the reviews and see that almost all of them used a guide.

Crutch of game design? More like the crutch of gamers that need to unlock absolutely everything and reach 100% on their completion bar. Games have had hidden stuff long before you could look up guides on the internet. 
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Neonivek

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2321 on: April 19, 2013, 01:12:29 am »

Secrets existed before the internet? I didn't know that!

The thing is Wiles that because of guides there is not a need to properly develop your game. You now have guides that EVERYONE reads.

No one is going to bad mouth you for being overly cryptic because everyone reads a guide and has absolutely no problem solving ability anymore.

I don't let it slide. If a game is flawed without a guide then it is flawed and I wish more people would judge games based on the information the game gives you. Instead of the information a guide has told them.

That is why it is a crutch.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 01:16:07 am by Neonivek »
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Mephansteras

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2322 on: November 12, 2013, 12:37:15 pm »

So...FTL Advanced has been announced as a free expansion. Looks promising! And free! So I'm looking forward to it.
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Neonivek

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2323 on: November 12, 2013, 12:39:01 pm »

So...FTL Advanced has been announced as a free expansion. Looks promising! And free! So I'm looking forward to it.

I own FTL but it is unlikely I'll be able to get this expansion... dang!
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: FTL - Faster than light - spaceship crew management and roguelike.
« Reply #2324 on: November 12, 2013, 01:07:03 pm »

So...FTL Advanced has been announced as a free expansion. Looks promising! And free! So I'm looking forward to it.

I own FTL but it is unlikely I'll be able to get this expansion... dang!
...Even though it's free? Or do you have it through a third party?
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