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[Eric Blank]

Spoiler: 1 (click to show/hide)

If you'd like to come to agreement on a particular landscape, I would suggest that we pass around a .png image made in mspaint or something very similar by way of the ability to accurately modify a single pixel at a time. The passing of the .png would need to be organized and at no point should it become a .jpg (to maintain perfect pixel clarity!) We could even create our own preferred settings for our prospective fortresses. I like Girlinhat's idea for starters.
Then one of us can use that to create a Perfect World file for generating the landscape.

Could also generate a world, export the picture, and cut+paste the pieces we like out of them into said .png, as if we were building a puzzle.
I test-genned a world using some suggested params from earlier. Eric Blank's map pretty much owns it though.

*image removed for quote-spoilering purposes*

I think it should at least be this colorful, with good and evil variations of every biome. I really like how the biggest human civilization on is concentrated around the neutral sea (The Magical Seas of Tiredness) at the center of the world. Could definitely use more mountains though.

Spoiler: 2 (click to show/hide)

Well, people could choose to make vault forts, but they'd need to outline them as such in their "local lore" section, so that players who aren't dirty cheaters can avoid them and do things the legit way.  Although it should be mentioned that only dwarven adventurers could utilize it, or elves, because humans are too big to wear dwarven-made armor.  In general though, we do encourage AGAINST easy vault forts.  We may allow exactly one cheap fort with a danger room and armor+weapon, to allow leisure players to enjoy mass slaughter and exploration freely, while serious players can take the good route.  But we shouldn't have free armor forts everywhere, no.

What about a vault type fort that is guarded by an army of HFS? Only a decked out superhero would be able to reach the tootsie-roll center anyway.

1. Yeah, that's actually a good idea as well. How can we convert the resulting image into a functioning world gen, though?

2. Only a decked-out super hero could set foot ON THE LAWN without being instantly bisected by half a dozen different demons. They're actually pretty damn terrifying in adventure mode, with the whole legendary in every combat skill and being absolutely enormous.

[Loud Whispers]

Bootifulz.

[Kassil]

I do my most absurd work in canyons. >.> Failing that, surface-breaching volcanoes are lovely.

[Vattic]

I'm absolutely certain that cavern layers will join together.  I usually gen 1 cavern worlds for FPS reasons, and got all the cavern stuff in that one.  I've been doing 2 layers now though, since I realized that uprights only spawn with 2 or 3 layers.  Everything is present and will join together into one super-cavern.

Good to know.

We do NOT need reactions to produce free materials.  This is not a "lol let's godmode some walls" project.  If we wanted easy mode to produce forts, we wouldn't be playing Dwarf Fortress.  No.  If a player wants gold, they better get digging.  Players are using local stone or they're importing.  We are also NOT hacking in free expensive items for loot.  If gold goblets become common in dungeons then what's the point of carrying them at all?  The only ONLY justifiable free resource would be the heat-sensitive stone used to make things deconstruct in theatrical ways.  The only Only ONLY justifiable use of DFHack to place liquids (or, for that matter, the majority of DFHack's utilities) would be to theatrically deconstruct items.  Things like autodumping and especially cheap shit like runesmith genocide is NOT welcome.

This is NOT a sandbox, this IS constructing many, real, hard fortresses in a single world.  We're not just doing this for the hell of watching walls go up.  That also means no speed:0 or no_eat or anything.

Fair enough. I misunderstood the exact purpose of this project. I thought the challenge would be in adventuring rather than fort building.

Do DFHack'ed liquids stay put when you abandon? I've not used it before.

[Eric Blank]

Do DFHack'ed liquids stay put when you abandon? I've not used it before.

That's actually a really good question. I understand there was an outstanding issue with how liquids in a fortress are handled, namely involving oceans and fortresses like Battlefailed, where everything dug out under the ocean was completely flooded upon adventuring there or reclaiming. I'd guess that it's true that the game wouldn't leave what it percieves to be random pools of liquids lying around... A test, maybe?

[dragginmaster]

ya'll have the luxury to spend 7 - 14 consecutive days after/ during / before work to tinker on a fort, i get 6 - 10 hours in a shot every 1 - 2 weeks, I will bow out now respectfully, awesome Idea though, just do not want to be the reason for project failure

*bows*

[A Spoony Bard]

As for mods, perhaps we should make kobolds actually live through world gen? Like girlinhat said, we should change the turkey's raws so that they are only adults when fully grown. All monsters that are exotic pets should just be regular pets, since the DM is bugged, and some players may wish to add monsters to their forts. The Display Case mod is a must, if only to keep loot in certain places. As girlinhat said, we should have a heat-sensitive metal, to make puzzles, deconstruct display cases, and the like. Perhaps there should also be a reaction for free slade bins, to store loot in?

[clockout1]

Also, while it might be an unnecessary level of organization, we could divide the finalized world up as a grid, then anyone who wants in can claim a section. That way everyone would end up with what they want, and could discuss about it before any fortresses are actually made.

[Babylon]

As for mods, perhaps we should make kobolds actually live through world gen? Like girlinhat said, we should change the turkey's raws so that they are only adults when fully grown. All monsters that are exotic pets should just be regular pets, since the DM is bugged, and some players may wish to add monsters to their forts. The Display Case mod is a must, if only to keep loot in certain places. As girlinhat said, we should have a heat-sensitive metal, to make puzzles, deconstruct display cases, and the like. Perhaps there should also be a reaction for free slade bins, to store loot in?

I like all of this except the free slade bins.  Just make lead or gold bins.

[Oliolli]

Or just the showcase-thingy.

[Girlinhat]

Lead bins are perfect, they don't move at all upon reclaim, and you can buy lead cheap from any traders.

DFHack has this thing, DFMode.  I was thinking of how to utilize it to best effect.  Namely, you could start a fort, play it through, then DFMode your way into an adventurer, probably a cat or something.  Then leave the site and suicide.  This should, in theory, leave everything exactly as it was, including any loot, creatures, and in fact dwarves.  From reports, I've heard that the dwarves pick up NPC activity, and will talk to you about the surroundings and give you quests sometimes.  It's definitely worth looking into, if it works as I've heard.  People wanting a truly abandoned but intact fort can lock their dwarves in a closet burrow, seal the door, and then change modes.  The adventurer can't dig through walls, so any dwarves stuck in a solid room are effectively not there.

I don't know how this would handle certain things, like HFS breaches or active invaders.

[Eric Blank]

Lead bins are perfect, they don't move at all upon reclaim, and you can buy lead cheap from any traders.

DFHack has this thing, DFMode.  I was thinking of how to utilize it to best effect.  Namely, you could start a fort, play it through, then DFMode your way into an adventurer, probably a cat or something.  Then leave the site and suicide.  This should, in theory, leave everything exactly as it was, including any loot, creatures, and in fact dwarves.  From reports, I've heard that the dwarves pick up NPC activity, and will talk to you about the surroundings and give you quests sometimes.  It's definitely worth looking into, if it works as I've heard.  People wanting a truly abandoned but intact fort can lock their dwarves in a closet burrow, seal the door, and then change modes.  The adventurer can't dig through walls, so any dwarves stuck in a solid room are effectively not there.

I don't know how this would handle certain things, like HFS breaches or active invaders.

Yes, DFmode is the perfect way to do this. Rumrusher made a thread about retiring fortresses, actually: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81738.0

After his initial instructions, there is another short set of 3, which are much simpler and quicker to use. I've used it and it works. The fortress even shows up on the embark/adventurer civ selections as a member of your civ. No idea if it has any affect on your available resources for embarking/importing, or even migrant caps, though.

But; any proof whether you can actually seal creatures into a certain part of the fortress or not? I've never heard anyone emntion that before, and I'd be especially skeptical if only a door is used rather than sealing them behind a solid constructed wall. I have heard of using natural-stone vaults to seal items inside to prevent them scattering, but it demands 100% certainty that there is no way in or out of the structure, even for flying creatures or through grates/fortifications. It demands that a constructed wall is built in every possible entrance and vertical diagonals are double-checked for entry. Then, use an engineered cave-in over the constructed wall that the adventurer can trigger somehow to open it up.

[Loud Whispers]

Well I have had a caged minatour take residence in my fort when I abandoned it. Did I mention the masterwork steel battle axe it stole? :d

[Girlinhat]

I once stockpiled about two dozen FB and Titans, and when I abandoned they'd all escaped their cages and gangraped me at the entrance.  My adventurer died SO FAST that time!

[clockout1]

Someone wanna make a thread in the community games board? I think we should go for it.

Or we could discuss some ground rules and such here before anyone makes the official thread.