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Author Topic: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)  (Read 972708 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7905 on: February 16, 2014, 09:30:54 am »

Not in OldCom it isn't.

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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7906 on: February 16, 2014, 09:33:00 am »

Seeing as Earth is the planet the alien base is on, you might want to think twice about that kind of strategy.
Not in..

Not in OldCom it isn't.
..dangit.

But yeah, in X-Com the alien base is in Cydonia, on Mars. Hence needing to build the interplanetary Avenger craft.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 09:34:49 am by Sean Mirrsen »
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

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Jelle

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7907 on: February 16, 2014, 10:03:36 am »

Time for another playthrough! Good oppertunity to try out this mod to, only way to check if its balanced is to give it a whirl. Should be about the same difficulty early, but a lot harder late.  :D

Anyone care to join me? I can send you a file to install if you fancy trying it out, could use help testing. The changes to combat should be more or less complete. Base management, missions and panic I'm seeing how they play out myself right now.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7908 on: February 16, 2014, 12:24:32 pm »

How are the mods for this? Has the Exalt DLC come with any updates to the DLC less base game? Is it still repetitive, and is there any way of tackling this without DLC?
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7909 on: February 16, 2014, 12:33:22 pm »

EXALT is not DLC, and there is no way to get any part of Enemy Within separately from Enemy Within - it's a standalone expansion.
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7910 on: February 16, 2014, 12:34:14 pm »

I just remembered I've literally never beaten Oldcom... I think I only 'beat' one, actually. Maybe I need to fix that.
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Jelle

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7911 on: February 16, 2014, 01:21:45 pm »

Has the Exalt DLC come with any updates to the DLC less base game? Is it still repetitive, and is there any way of tackling this without DLC?
Besides being an expansion, it did come with plenty features beyond the exalt organization. New enemies: seeker and mechtoid. New resource called meld. New class that is gained by cybernetic enhancement of an existing soldier: the mec. New genetic upgrades to regular soldiers. Medals that can be assigned to a soldier, offering certain benefits. New second wave settings to play with. Bit of cost rebalancing here and there. Probably more I've missed.

Unmodded xcomew is still as repetitive as xcomeu imo, but that's a matter of taste. There are some amazing mods out there. Game is not very mod friendly though (making the game easier to mod next expansion my ass ::)), so the more extensive ones can be tricky to install.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7912 on: February 16, 2014, 01:31:59 pm »

There are also some ability and upgrade changes.

Full list here: http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/XCOM:_Enemy_Within
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- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Ibid Straydrink

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7913 on: February 16, 2014, 05:21:58 pm »

It's also been rebalanced to make normal mode players swallow their integrity and lower the settings to easy, if they're the type who can't stand losing a man. :P
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 07:23:38 pm by Ibid Straydrink »
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7914 on: February 16, 2014, 06:58:27 pm »

The problem is that the game sets the difficulty at the start, and only really ups the ante once. In OldCom, the aliens are strong from the outset, and gradually get stronger - but through all the time you spend fighting, you are playing catch-up on sheer power. Your best tech is the alien tech, and you have parity with the aliens on the ground - a shot of Heavy Plasma can OHKO your best soldier if he is unlucky, and Heavy Plasma is standard alien gear by then. In the air, you need massive investment to achieve that parity - Fusion weapons and Firestorms are expensive to field, and the Aliens can mobilize in far greater numbers than you can respond to - and until then you are SOL if you meet a Battleship.

In NewCom, the combat system is such that a hit of even a Mechtoid's or Sectopod's plasma cannon, even a lucky one, will never kill a fully kitted out Colonel outright, whereas a shot of a Laser Rifle, sans Damage Roulette, is a guaranteed kill on Sectoids and Thin Men on Normal. And Sectoids stop being a danger at all once you have Titan armor, as well as Thin Men to a lesser extent. Even Chryssalids stop being a problem once you're up to Plasma, since you have abilities that straight-up counter them - CQS plus Alloy Cannon. Simply put, in OldCom any alien you saw was a danger, all the time, whereas in NewCom you have "tiers" of aliens and equipment, and can ROFLstomp aliens on a lower tier than you. Same with Geoscape - Abductions are a simple event, UFOs appear one at a time, Battleships only appear in very specific circumstances, etc - only one Firestorm with the best cannon is ever required per continent, and the interception is an arcade game with "powerups" instead of anything like a risk-filled engagement.

With such definite mechanics and counters, of course the game stops being challenging. It has a definite victory clause, and you end up always more powerful than the aliens instead of fighting a losing battle and needing to Ender's Game your way out of the invasion.

Sure individual soldiers are weaker in oldcom, but who cares?  You have so many soldiers and the price tag on an individual soldier is so low..

To put it into perspective, each alien past the third month drops a Heavy Plasma worth the recruitment cost of 4 soldiers.  You can also sell corpses worth half a soldier, mind probes worth 8 soldiers (which can come equipped on aliens who don't have psi, like floaters), and each individual component of a UFO has its own price tag that can come to quite a lot.  This is on every UFO you take; a medium scout can easily carry enough loot to buy a new skyranger and fill it with rookies.  Meanwhile, all you need to be competitive with the aliens are heavy plasma, the same gun all of them carry, which can almost certainly be researched by the end of the second month and then collected in droves off their bodies.  There are also three techs that give Xcom a ludicrous power boost if you're willing to spam them enough: psi, blaster launchers, and the Avenger.  Meanwhile the main bullshit strat the aliens have, psi, can simply be dodged if you have the hyperwave beacon since your own wins cancel out the alien's wins in the eyes of the council.

Tl;DR: expendability is the same thing is survivability in a TBS

I mean don't get me wrong Newcom gets easier as it goes on, but it has nothing on Oldcom.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7915 on: February 16, 2014, 07:39:43 pm »

I like the expandability of soldiers in oldcom. It really gave the feeling you were fighting an enemy superior to you when they could butcher your soldiers through armour. I do feel it should take longer to unlock lasers and plasma, though. Maybe increase the numbers of larger ships, so you can't really intercept a lot of their missions until later.

I did like the addition of having to capture live aliens to get their weapons in Newcom. Maybe a system of having to capture alien weapons, and only a certain number of scientists can study per weapon captured - only so many can inspect a single rifle at any one time, after all. Possibly have engineers needed to disassemble them first, and then studying the pieces to work out how they function. Basically make research longer, and mix it end-game patrols with beginning and mid-game missions to enforce the impression that sometimes the aliens are just too powerful.

Also, not having the plasma cannon outrange most ufos means you'd have to upgrade to more advanced fighter craft or face losing a lot of craft, meaning it'd stress your resources more.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7916 on: February 16, 2014, 07:58:10 pm »

The problem is that soldiers never need armor, only your elites need guns provided you have a plan for getting through the UFO doors, and guns are basically free anyway.  So lategame your income increases many times over, but the cost of soldiers remains basically the same as it was before.
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Hanslanda

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7917 on: February 16, 2014, 08:53:49 pm »

The Squadsight-Sniper level 'difficulty drop' in Oldcom was Laser Cannons. Once you researched them, you effectively had infinite money, because of their profit margin.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7918 on: February 16, 2014, 08:54:55 pm »

The Squadsight-Sniper level 'difficulty drop' in Oldcom was Laser Cannons. Once you researched them, you effectively had infinite money, because of their profit margin.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7919 on: February 16, 2014, 09:05:17 pm »

The Squadsight-Sniper level 'difficulty drop' in Oldcom was Laser Cannons. Once you researched them, you effectively had infinite money, because of their profit margin.
Wait, are you saying it sold for more than it took to create?
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