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Author Topic: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?  (Read 5296 times)

Nan

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2011, 01:46:35 am »

A few comments - mainly aimed at not inducing wrong ideas in new players. Firstly, it's unnecessary to embark with appraisal. Any dwarf who is made a broker, will get appraisal experience (enough to bump them from 0 to adequate) if they are the first to initiate trade with a caravan. 1 point is fine as a hint on which dwarf should be made the broker... but it's basically not necessary. Judge of intent can be a more useful skill on the broker because it gives additional information during trading, which isn't available for a non-judge of intent broker (and though judge of intent can be easily increased be socializing, it's not increased merely by trading).

I'm not sure it's good to encourage putting 5 points in stone crafting. It's so so easy to train up. I think it'd be better to put 1 into stone crafting, and 5 into mechanics.

Points (plural) into Herbalism are an extremely good investment, if it's going to be used. Herbalism enjoys an excellent rate of return for point investment. A proficient herbalist reliably brings in size 3-5 stacks, while a novice herbalist... doesn't. In contrast a skill like cook is very easy to train up and the quality of the skill isn't so critical to the results. Brewing doesn't have a quality level nor is it particularly slow for a dabbler/novice, so more than 1 point really isn't necessary. What I would do is 4 Planter, 4 Herbalism, 1 Cook, 1 Brewer. In truth it's a bit smarter to put cook, brewer or both on another dorf - for example the mason (and eventually have immigrants do it) - since farming doesn't go well with other time-consuming skills, and this allows embarking with proficient farmer/herbalist, which is nice - because all industries "down the line" benefit from larger plant stacks. But I'll leave that as a judgement call for conceptual simplicity vs optimization.

Putting woodcutter and axe on the same dorf.... is okay as long as you stress that you have to turn off woodcutting for a military dwarf, ditto for hunting. The principle is good though, so long as people understand they can't actually do double-duty. Also it's kind of better to embark with proficient weapon skill... weapon skill is a better investment than almost any other, it's definitely better than other skills like dodging (because weapon skill is also powerful defensively.. it helps parrying, and also seems to help shield skill development). After you've maxed out weapon skill, consider other skills.
I also wont mention that it's not a good idea to only embark with one weapon user. Oh I just did. Really it's better to have two, so they can pair up and spar. There's not much advantage in putting a proficient weapon user, with a noobie, two noobies work almost as well - but two proficient weapon users work much better. The idea of embarking with a weapon/teacher is good in theory but in reality provides virtually no benefit because demonstrations are just such a waste of time, and the players will just have to un-learn it in favor of what works. Either embark with two military dwarves or zero (I'd be inclined to ditch the hunter, and replace with a proficient spear-dwarf, then encourage the players to practice on wildlife, you'd need to bring a spear, or work forging one into the game-plan, though)

As for items:
There's no point in bringing gypsum rocks, bring the plaster itself (which AFAIK is available even if gypsum isn't). Also bringing 1 lye is good practice for easy soap.

The wooden training axe thing is, eh, dodgy, and leaves the axedorf without a real (emergency) weapon. I mean sure, sure, it's very efficient. But it is dodgy. I'd say with any kind of those obvious exploits, it's a judgement call whether to encourage them or not. Personally I don't use wooden training axes. Ditto for mass-buying of sand bags, or single edibles, for the freebie bags/barrels. It's an obvious exploit. In all those cases if I actually want the thing, if I actually want 1 lye, or some gypsum plaster, or just a little bit of meat/booze, I let the freebie container slide. But I think it's wrong to actively exploit it.
If you aren't going to exploit those tricks, it becomes necessary (or at least extremely helpful) to bring along a bunch of logs, and a bit of leather. I usually bring about 15 of each. Leathers actually nice in general because you can turn it into stuff useful for military - cloaks, waterskins and cheap armor, or bags. And on an unrelated note, it's not a bad idea to bring a few stones for setting up initial buildings (stones, unlike logs, can be used for furnace buildings).

And.... sheep? Ixnay on the earingshay, it's bugged. The entire stack of wool will only become one thread and there is additionally the clutter bug when spinning wool from large animals. Even if it wasn't bugged, I don't think it's a good way to get thread for doctors. Just embark with it - the 5 you have already is more than enough unless a player is planning to cause a lot of cave-ins, or wrestle giant badgers, before the first caravan (which usually carries 5-10 threads). And it's also worth mentioning you can slaughter the pack animals and 'S'pin their hair at the farmer's workshop - for the desperate (but due to the clutter bug, this takes so long the poor patient will probably die, oh well).
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knutor

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2011, 06:50:39 am »

See I disagree about Herbalism.  On the basis of the default settings Toady gave us, ALL FARM is ordered on.  Sure ya can go in there and turn it off, to focus on one farmers uberness. 

My supplies should last me, until the first trader arrives.  *crossfingers*  That's why I hesitate to take a farmer, brewer or cook.  I hesitate to take an anvil, because its going to take me two years to set up smelting, and some hallways down there. Depending on how deep the first metal is, of course.  I've never had much luck with shallow metals, have you?  Are there even shallow metals, I know it says there are, but have you actually seen some lately?  If there are, and you plan on going for them in that kind of region, by all means take an anvil.  I just don't, they are salty.  Course it sometimes costs me a migrant or two, to a mood death.  But that could happen in any trade, without the necessary artifact crafting supplies.

I still disagree, your setting yourself up for fail sauce, in taking socials.  They depend too much on attributes in the current version, and those points could have larger payoffs in other areas, observation for example.  After all you must observe before you design.  Its nice to see those vermin, ripping you off blind, and where they tend to hangout.  When the hunter isn't hunting, he can still be very VERY efficient, in standing there looking around, and identifying vermin.  Your kitty's will pounce better.

Ya don't need to spend points on an xbow if you take sneak/ambush.  Unless ya just want it for the early metal.  Be cheaper just setting another dwarf to sneak/ambush than buying that xbow, wouldn't it?  Doesn't ambush also provide lotsa freebie leather armor?  I could be mistaken.  Boy I put that I took 9 blocks in my previous post and nobody mentioned how insane that was.  LOL!  Do you all have me ignored?  *rolleyes*

Sincerely,
Knutor
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 07:15:44 am by knutor »
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hermano

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2011, 07:52:14 am »

I think dwarf 4 is pretty useless with those low skills. A proficient armor/weaponsmith would be much more useful. The novice herbalism skill on dwarf 5 isn't that useful either, cooking, brewing and planting is already more than a single dwarf can accomplish, novice herbalism doesn't produce much either.
You might start the tutorial with enabling professions on dwarfs that did not get the according skill in the setup. At least it's pretty much the first thing I do when starting a game. And it's important information for beginners that every dwarf can do everything in the end.

- You could remove the plump helmets from the items. They're more expensive than the same amount of plump helmet seeds plus any food item. - Unless you want to introduce brewing before the first harvest.
- Instead of the wooden axe you could bring more wood. The carpenter could start with making an axe instead. Or don't be cheaty and take either a metal axe or get copper, charcoal and a stone and let somebody smith an axe right away :).
- If I read the items correctly you are taking bags with you. You won't need any right at the start of the game. Some leather would be cheaper, the leatherbags would be just as good. Or, as already mentioned, take turkeys instead of leather and food.
- Having some sand will be nice. Not just merely to get cheap bags but to be able to get some glass ceiling on maps without sand.
- I think you should get rid of the ducks. You already have chicken for eggs. Butchering ducks produces just a skull, so any big bird would be more useful. Maybe also take some geese instead of the chicken, they grow faster than turkeys and produce meat and leather when butchered, they're pretty useful in every respect.
- I would take more wood instead of splints and crutches. You will have to introduce the production of those anyway when talking about hospitals.
Same goes for the bucket. You will have a carpenter churning out products before you have set up a well or have time to milk creatures.
- You have lots of food. Remember, dwarfs will only eat twice a season, and your hunter and farmer will soon produce something.
- I understand that you want to introduce animal cloth production but it's not that useful in my opinion. You will have to shear, spin and weave to get cloth and can do this just once in a while, people will probably forget to do this. Pigtails will probably be much easier to handle for beginners.

My supplies should last me, until the first trader arrives.  *crossfingers*  That's why I hesitate to take a farmer, brewer or cook.  I hesitate to take an anvil, because its going to take me two years to set up smelting, and some hallways down there. Depending on how deep the first metal is, of course.  I've never had much luck with shallow metals, have you?  Are there even shallow metals, I know it says there are, but have you actually seen some lately?  If there are, and you plan on going for them in that kind of region, by all means take an anvil.  I just don't, they are salty.  Course it sometimes costs me a migrant or two, to a mood death.  But that could happen in any trade, without the necessary artifact crafting supplies.
You just posted while I was writing, so I'll add what I think.
Producing food is ridiculously easy in the current game, back in the 2d version you could starve, now you will have to fuck up royally to achieve that. Having one dwarf produce food and drink will be more than sufficient for the first years, and you will need at least one anyway later on, why not start with him instead of risking hunger?
In respect to smithing: taking metal nuggets or bars will always be cheaper than taking finished metal goods. If you need a military dwarf right from the start you will want at least iron or bronze armour and a metal weapon for him. I usually take copper, tin and bismuth bars and some charcoal with me. That will produce a bronze axe, chainmail, helm and greaves. Bars and charcoal cost 90 starting points, the anvil 100 and you will need one stone. I doubt you can get the equipment cheaper, and it will be of lower quality. Taking some copper nuggets, cassiterite and bismuth is really cheap. With some wood this will produce more weapons for a second military dwarf. In evil regions or when at war with other factions I will want to conscript and equip one of the spring migrants. Waiting for the first caravan to get equipment might already doom the fortress.
And finding metal is not *that* hard. Just dig down to the first cavern layer, that doesn't take much effort, you will usually find some metal in the walls there.
But I agree that currently metal is very scarce. However you can increase metal frequency in the world setup.
With 2010 the price of anvils was dropped a lot, it made sense before to not take one, considering the price, not so much now.
edit: Also by choosing a smith at the beginning I can make sure he likes adamantine or steel or some type of armour I will produce in huge quantities, increasing the quality of those items.

Quote
I still disagree, your setting yourself up for fail sauce, in taking socials.  They depend too much on attributes in the current version, and those points could have larger payoffs in other areas, observation for example.  After all you must observe before you design.  Its nice to see those vermin, ripping you off blind, and where they tend to hangout.  When the hunter isn't hunting, he can still be very VERY efficient, in standing there looking around, and identifying vermin.  Your kitty's will pounce better.
Interesting, I never spend a thought on the observer skill. However it will be midly useful at best, a chained puppy outside the gates will be good enought to 'spot' thiefs and ambush parties. I never really had problems with vermin (unless they're demon rats that rip my cats to shreds).

Quote
Ya don't need to spend points on an xbow if you take sneak/ambush.  Unless ya just want it for the early metal.  Be cheaper just setting another dwarf to sneak/ambush than buying that xbow, wouldn't it?  Doesn't ambush also provide lotsa freebie leather armor?  I could be mistaken.  Boy I put that I took 9 blocks in my previous post and nobody mentioned how insane that was.  LOL!  Do you all have me ignored?  *rolleyes*
I agree with this. Taking a higher ambush skill will be more useful, removing the crossbow, bolts and quiver will free quite some points. And marksdwarfship is trained incredibly fast while hunting.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 08:34:16 am by hermano »
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captain_duck

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2011, 04:38:26 pm »

Ok

On dwarf 4 with the crafting skills: Remember this set is an allround one for new players. Making a dwarf have these skills means for a new player he won't have to worry about these skills. He's going to be a bit overloaded, but everything will get done, which is important for the beginning. Butchery is very important, tanning to so the skin doesn't waste. Jewelry is a must for wealth creation, woodcrafting for wooden bolts to keep the hunter going in the beginning, and bonecarving for bone bolts.

On not taking a smith: Who actually forges before the first wave of migrants? I don't and new players won't. I know having a good weapon and armorsmith is very important, but you usually get a couple in some migrant waves. New players would be better off with the craftsdwarf if you ask me.

On appraisal: Thats just a convenience so you can see your goods worth from the start. Also some conversation and judge of intent skills since this is going to be the expedition leader.

On herbalism: 1 point is more then enough.

On having a woodcutter which is also an axedwarf, i am aware of the bugs. Having it set likes this makes a whole lot more sense though. But i guess i will have to give him some sword skills instead.

On gypsum: I quite like this choice. It doubles as both cheap emergency rock, and as some way to easily get at least some plaster later. You don't get much emergency rock or wood with my set, but if your planning on a special embark, you should prepare carefully anyway.

On wooden training axe: It's cheap.

On sheep: They are cheap source of thread. Even if spinning is bugged, being able to create 1 thread in winter when pig tails don't grow is important.

On observation: Guess I'll try to sneak in a point on the hunter?

On bags: The more the better, even from the start.

On ducks: These are non negotiable, since my name is still captain_duck. I added turkeys because everyone keeps raving about them but the ducks are staying.   8)
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Nan

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2011, 05:29:04 pm »

On having a woodcutter which is also an axedwarf, i am aware of the bugs. Having it set likes this makes a whole lot more sense though. But i guess i will have to give him some sword skills instead.
Sadly it wont solve the issue. All you can do is warn players to turn off woodcutting, mining and hunting on recruited dwarves.
It's worth noting a woodcutter gains no skill with axes by woodcutting, so it makes absolutely no difference whether you use an axe or sword dwarf as a woodcutter, but thematically I agree it's nice to have an axe/woodcutter.

Quote
On gypsum: I quite like this choice. It doubles as both cheap emergency rock, and as some way to easily get at least some plaster later. You don't get much emergency rock or wood with my set, but if your planning on a special embark, you should prepare carefully anyway.
Good point.

Quote
On wooden training axe: It's cheap.
True. Though forging an axe from a copper bar is even cheaper and is a good introduction to forging for the new player.

Quote
On sheep: They are cheap source of thread. Even if spinning is bugged, being able to create 1 thread in winter when pig tails don't grow is important.
They are a grossly expensive source of thread. You can slaughter the pack animals and spin their hair if desperate... and hair wont get snapped up by the auto-loom (and other than an unrestrained auto-loom, I don't see why a player would run out of the starting thread, if they have that many injuries... they will be dead).
Seriously, sheep are bad value for points. Just embark with 7 sheep wool yarn and a dog. You get as much yarn as you would by shearing that thing for several years, AND, all the buggery butchery potential. Once the bugs are fixed it might be worthwhile revisiting, because then it wont be bad value for points, since a sheep would produce quite a lot of yarn per shearing.
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hermano

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2011, 09:12:02 pm »

On ducks: These are non negotiable, since my name is still captain_duck. I added turkeys because everyone keeps raving about them but the ducks are staying.   8)

Simple. Just change your name to captain_turkey... :) It has a certain je ne sais quoi.
Problem solved.

edit: Wait, that name might already be in use for somebody else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6h8WntefD0&feature=player_embedded&t=3m0s
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 09:29:34 pm by hermano »
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Molay

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2011, 11:39:42 pm »

Doesn't it introduce the new player quickly to the concept that any dwarf can do anything, but that skill is relevant for finished goods (by that I mean everything finished, including weapons, armor, crafts, bolts etc.) if you make DWARF 4 an armor/weaponsmith and tell those people to assign him other jobs in the meantime? It's a great introduction to that concept, and also it will make them want to explore forging rather quickly. And the easiest approach to forging is probably forging weapons and armor, since there is just a limited amount of metal types used for this.

I mean, some people only start forging when they discovered lava. But when I embarked in a heavily forested region (and most regions you will want to embark in will have trees in good amount), it's not a hazzle to produce charcoal for the forging. This will let players experience the amount of approachs possible to a different problem (in this case, forging) and introduce them to the many possibilities dwarf fortress oftentimes offers to solve said problems.

If anything, introduce people to forging and military, since those are the hard topics (military by far the hardest to catch if you are new), but remain some of the most important ones. As others said in their posts above, making food is easy. You can not starve unless you are really doing something wrong. You can still have enough food with just what the trade caravans bring and having a butcher and cook, for atleast the first 3 years. Ale is also cheap on caravans, and not hard to get a big amount stockpiled (unless you decide to cook it all :D).

Scheduling can't probably be covered often enough, together with alerts and the uniform menu. The rest will settle down automatically to anybody who played a few hours. But sure, you can only cover the basics in your DFVIDTUTS video. But I mean, you covered all the basics last year, even poultry etc. And what changed? I guess, those basics are by long understood. If not, it's likely best to watch the DFVIDTUTS2010(11?) again. Then watch the new DFVIDTUTS series after the first one, to catch up a few new things (like military) and maybe introduce the players to little subtle things that make huge differences (like using a beastplate AND multiple chainmails for a given dorf, in the uniform menu).

I guess you see where I'm going. I think the new series should introduce the players to advanced concepts, you covered the rest pretty well already! (Really, pretty well. You helped me out big time back then!) Actually, you got me hooked to the game, and I oftentime wished I got introduced more to the military than I actually was. It's hard to get it all right when leading military. It's terribly complex and still beautiful once it runs.

On another note, the next version will probably be released next year (was it in march? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think march was the anticipated date.). Wouldn't it be better to wait for that to happen? Or introducing the people to military before, and then covering what new little beauties (oh all those lovely night creatures armok gifted to us!) afterwards? Anyways, I think military is very important and people might need more help on that, than they might need on farming, stonecrafting, etc.

Whatever you decide, I'll be eager to watch your new series. There's always a chance to catch up some new good things :D

Molay

PS: I purely agree on taking the plump helmets on the start. Again, taking spawns (seeds) in this case does again help the player to plan for the future. It's more valuable to plan for the future than planning just for the moment! Go sir, introduce them to the broader topics! Teach them how to think! And then, rule over the world!
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captain_duck

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2011, 01:28:21 am »

Look, smithing just requires to much things and just is terribly tough for a new player. The point is that it's easy. That new people will have a little extra breathing room before they are forced to understand the labor options menu. New guys now can just build a butcher, tanner, jeweler, whatever and it will be built by the dwarves. Forcing them to go put on necessary labors and set up smithing as the first thing you do is completely against the point.

For now when i declare this done I'll make a video about just the embark set, explaining what is in it. When the next version of DF is out I'll think about making updated tutorials. And of course I'm still playing frostplunged and TAG at the moment.
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hermano

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2011, 09:00:24 am »

Look, smithing just requires to much things and just is terribly tough for a new player. The point is that it's easy. That new people will have a little extra breathing room before they are forced to understand the labor options menu. New guys now can just build a butcher, tanner, jeweler, whatever and it will be built by the dwarves. Forcing them to go put on necessary labors and set up smithing as the first thing you do is completely against the point.

For now when i declare this done I'll make a video about just the embark set, explaining what is in it. When the next version of DF is out I'll think about making updated tutorials. And of course I'm still playing frostplunged and TAG at the moment.

You seem to be little pissed off :) . But I might misinterpret that. However you asked for input and got just that. If the embark profile is just meant for the first game and not as a general set for further plays it should be good enough as it is. In the end you know best what you need for your tutorials and you are doing a good job with them.
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knutor

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2011, 05:01:03 am »

The point is that it's easy.

Okay.  Lets go with that point.  We aim to embark in a:

Flat
Calm
Neutral
Temperate
Trees
Plants
Metals
Flux
Exotics
No Aquifiers
No Stream
No Coastline

If we go with Exotics, which I hope you suggest, since its so exciting to play, and provides lots more leathers.  We'll wanna lean towards taking a hunter.  No marksmanship, it'll advance fast, with all his misses, and it'll give ya a chance to reinforce the MAKE AMMO, and Ammo pile steps. 

Also go right for building up leathercrafting, to improve his gear.  A kennel to tame the exotics.  If a kennel, then also make many cages.  So trapping, woodcrafting, is going to be required soon into game.  Have all this going on while mining out a fortresses big rooms, and masoning up walls and a safety bridges to secure your duck pens.  And to fully use the bridges and floodgates, we'll need a mechanic.

Nowhere in the first year, before migrants, will we need farming.  Nowhere will we need metalsmithing, or armoring.  With such a SMALL cast of dorfs, we don't need leadership, brokering, or even medicine.  Just start over if ya lose the miner in the first year, ya couldn't have developed or gotten too attached in such small playtime.  You'll need to lay the groundwork for eating and sleeping.  Maybe design some plumbing the first year, and channel the pools. 

I've not tried tying in fishing and hunting, but the more I think about those two together the more I think, it might be buggy.  However, lotsa vermin tend to linger near the pools(watering holes), might not be a bad idea to go observation/fishing.  Instead of observation/hunting, at the start.  Up to you.

Sincerely,
Knutor

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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

schismatise

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2011, 08:24:26 am »

Yes yes, we can all debate on the efficiency of particular embark setups till the cows come home.

Sure, you want to cover all your bases in a noob-friendly embark setup, but remember that there is usually about 17 different ways to do something in dwarf fortress, and trying to figure out which one is "better" is usually a huge waste of time :P

I think you should cover the basics and then go with whatever is "cool". Ducks because your name is captain_duck = win :)

That said, i do agree with Nan that you should not encourage mixing mining/woodcutting/hunting with military, it's just too bugged for new players to deal with imo. That bug pissed me off no end when i first started, it's like, wtf is my Axedwarf running into battle naked?! ><
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captain_duck

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2011, 10:41:36 pm »

Ok toyed around with the settings today and came up with this:

Code: [Select]
[PROFILE]
[TITLE:DFVIDTUTS2012 BETA3]
[SKILL:1:MINING:5]
[SKILL:1:APPRAISAL:3]
[SKILL:1:CONVERSATION:1]
[SKILL:2:MINING:5]
[SKILL:2:MECHANICS:1]
[SKILL:3:MASONRY:5]
[SKILL:3:STONECRAFT:5]
[SKILL:4:CARPENTRY:1]
[SKILL:4:BUTCHER:2]
[SKILL:4:TANNER:1]
[SKILL:4:CUTGEM:1]
[SKILL:4:ENCRUSTGEM:1]
[SKILL:4:WOODCRAFT:1]
[SKILL:4:BONECARVE:2]
[SKILL:4:DESIGNBUILDING:1]
[SKILL:5:BREWING:2]
[SKILL:5:COOK:2]
[SKILL:5:PLANT:5]
[SKILL:5:HERBALISM:1]
[SKILL:6:WOODCUTTING:1]
[SKILL:6:AXE:4]
[SKILL:6:LEADERSHIP:1]
[SKILL:6:TEACHING:3]
[SKILL:6:DODGING:1]
[SKILL:7:CROSSBOW:5]
[SKILL:7:SNEAK:1]
[SKILL:7:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:1]
[SKILL:7:LEADERSHIP:1]
[SKILL:7:TEACHING:1]
[SKILL:7:DODGING:1]
[ITEM:2:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK:INORGANIC:COPPER]
[ITEM:1:ANVIL:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON]
[ITEM:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW:INORGANIC:COPPER]
[ITEM:1:QUIVER:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:BIRD_TURKEY:LEATHER]
[ITEM:20:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS:INORGANIC:COPPER]
[ITEM:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_TRAINING:PLANT_MAT:TOWER_CAP:WOOD]
[ITEM:10:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:SEED]
[ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:SEED]
[ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE:SEED]
[ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:POD_SWEET:SEED]
[ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:BUSH_QUARRY:SEED]
[ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_CUP_DIMPLE:SEED]
[ITEM:5:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:STRUCTURAL]
[ITEM:5:THREAD:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SPIDER_CAVE:SILK]
[ITEM:3:CLOTH:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SPIDER_CAVE:SILK]
[ITEM:1:CHAIN:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SPIDER_CAVE:SILK]
[ITEM:2:BOX:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SPIDER_CAVE:SILK]
[ITEM:9:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:DRINK]
[ITEM:9:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:DRINK]
[ITEM:9:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE:DRINK]
[ITEM:9:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:POD_SWEET:DRINK]
[ITEM:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN]
[ITEM:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_WHITE]
[ITEM:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_BLACK]
[ITEM:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_RED]
[ITEM:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_YELLOW]
[ITEM:5:WOOD:NONE:PLANT_MAT:TOWER_CAP:WOOD]
[ITEM:5:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:GYPSUM]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:YAK:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:REINDEER:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:DONKEY:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:HORSE:MILK]
[ITEM:2:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:COW:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SHEEP:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:PIG:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:GOAT:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:WATER_BUFFALO:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:LLAMA:MILK]
[ITEM:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:ALPACA:MILK]
[ITEM:1:SPLINT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:TOWER_CAP:WOOD]
[ITEM:1:CRUTCH:NONE:PLANT_MAT:TOWER_CAP:WOOD]
[ITEM:1:BUCKET:NONE:PLANT_MAT:TOWER_CAP:WOOD]
[ITEM:1:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:RAT:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:1:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:BIRD_TURKEY:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:1:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:BIRD_CHICKEN:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:1:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:DOG:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:1:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:CAT:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:1:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SHEEP:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:1:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:COW:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:4:FISH:NONE:TURTLE:MALE]
[ITEM:3:FISH:NONE:TURTLE:FEMALE]
[ITEM:3:FISH:NONE:LOBSTER_CAVE:FEMALE]
[ITEM:3:FISH:NONE:LOBSTER_CAVE:MALE]
[PET:3:DOG:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:DOG:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:DOG:MALE:TRAINED_HUNTER]
[PET:1:CAT:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:CAT:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:SHEEP:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:SHEEP:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:4:BIRD_CHICKEN:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:BIRD_CHICKEN:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:BIRD_DUCK:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:BIRD_DUCK:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:BIRD_TURKEY:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:BIRD_TURKEY:MALE:STANDARD]

I tried to use some more common materials and meats, to hopefully reduce the number of starting problems. I think tower-cap is always available right?

Also, i think this is about done. Any last suggestions before i send it to be included in the next lazy newb pack?
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kinotgell

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 01:35:58 am »

On one line it says "[SKILL:4:BONECARVE:2]" and I think the R at the end of BONECARVER is missing. Maybe the game still recognizes what you're getting at and gives the dwarf bonecarving skill? Or did Toady just leave it out for some reason?
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Nan

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2011, 03:30:52 am »

I'm going to reiterate what I said earlier about appraiser and judge of intent. Embarking with appraiser serves almost absolutely no purpose. A dwarf who initiates trading gains the appraiser experience before trading begins, before the trade window even opens, that means he has appraiser skill for the trading itself. (Okay there is an exception, I think the freebie experience doesn't happen with elves. So if you rely on this, and miss the dwarvern caravan, but catch the elvish caravan, you wont be able to see prices with the elves... not sure how it works with humans... thus it is slightly, if ever so slightly, justified to put a point in appraiser just in case).

Judge of intent gives additional information during trading. It tells you whether the other party is feeling good about the trading, or ecstatic about the trading or whatever. Judge of intent is not gained automatically, except by socializing, but a busy dwarf such as a miner wont spend much time socializing so will probably not gain it for a long time.

You should put at least one point into judge of intent so the player can see how the trading is going. Since the points in appraiser don't really accomplish anything, it would be a good place to take points from.
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Callista

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Re: What would you like to see in a DFVIDTUTS2012 embark profile?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2011, 05:27:02 am »

I've been playing with animal-raising lately and I'm pretty sure that sheep are the best option. They give you milk and wool like llamas and aplacas do; but the males will also give you horns for moody dwarves and decorating things. I had one dwarf who would have died if it weren't for a horn from a ram.

Yes, sheep give hides that can be tanned into leather.

Sheep will eat less than either the llama or alpaca; and I think they reproduce either at the same speed, or faster. Yeah, you get less meat and bone from them, but for each llama or alpaca you can keep, you can keep multiple sheep; and butchering all those extra sheep will train your butcher too.

So yeah, sheep definitely.

Oh yeah, and: Backup picks and axes. Absolutely worth it, because your dwarves are bound to do something stupid like jump into the river holding your only axe before you have enough wood to make beds for everyone.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 05:30:00 am by Callista »
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