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[Necro910]

Weapons help too 

That they do. But a group a determined individuals can take down a gun toting madman with plastic forks, under the right circumstances.

And now, i want various cutlery and eating utensils to be implemented into DF, so that i may combat the goblin hordes with an artifact spork.

Throw a rock near their face whilst charging, leaving them distracted for about 0.5 seconds. During which period I have already gouged said target's eyes out with my thumbs. Secondary targets are swinging their arms and about to attack, I kick off the first target in order to escape quickly, losing my balance but am too far away for it to matter. One of the attackers is closer to me than the other and hurls a punch. A swift guiding hand to their wrist and then a hand on their should will send them flying in the direction of their punch (I love Shotokan Karate). While the puncher are dazed by the fall, I could do a number of things. For now I will satisfy with breaking whatever joint is most vulnerable with a stomp, and backing up to attack the next person. This one is more cautious from seeing that I actually know how to fight, and grabs a knife. Lunge to the gut, he's on the ground with a broken neck. Slashing at me? His arm is guided in the direction of his slashing (Up, down, left, or right) and is gouged. The attacker that had a joint broken, is probably limping away at this point, due to seeing that his comrades are dead. I could use a knife and slaughter him, or I could kick his broken joint, and gouge his eyes out as well.

I R UNARMED PRO

[elf-fondling human]

In theory, as long as human nature persists there will be a never-ending struggle to overcome it. Therefore, I have to admit that no one system will ever work properly for all of humanity. However, I still stand by my decision to take over Australia and convert it to an anarchist state, to which like-minded people may travel and from which others may leave. Then, come up with some reason for the rest of the world not to destroy us, and I can give up my founder-authority and live by myself somewhere.

[Specter513]

This thread has gone from dwarf space marine-esque drop pods to a magma spewing phallus to the philosophical nature of humanity with or without a hierarchy.\
Only on Bay 12.

[King DZA]

Throw a rock near their face whilst charging, leaving them distracted for about 0.5 seconds. During which period I have already gouged said target's eyes out with my thumbs. Secondary targets are swinging their arms and about to attack, I kick off the first target in order to escape quickly, losing my balance but am too far away for it to matter. One of the attackers is closer to me than the other and hurls a punch. A swift guiding hand to their wrist and then a hand on their should will send them flying in the direction of their punch (I love Shotokan Karate). While the puncher are dazed by the fall, I could do a number of things. For now I will satisfy with breaking whatever joint is most vulnerable with a stomp, and backing up to attack the next person. This one is more cautious from seeing that I actually know how to fight, and grabs a knife. Lunge to the gut, he's on the ground with a broken neck. Slashing at me? His arm is guided in the direction of his slashing (Up, down, left, or right) and is gouged. The attacker that had a joint broken, is probably limping away at this point, due to seeing that his comrades are dead. I could use a knife and slaughter him, or I could kick his broken joint, and gouge his eyes out as well.

I R UNARMED PRO

*THEN, OUT OF NOWHERE* Hiya! Plastic fork straight to the jugular!

Seriously though, something tells me the fight would go less than ideally if your opponents were at least somewhat organized, and had combat skills greater than that of Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Men.

And on the topic of anarchy, Zero has a point. Once groups began to split, as new systems formed, anarchy would diminish. Although, if the groups were made up of intellectuals, i doubt war would be a problem.

That is why i think the only way anarchy could truly thrive, is for there to be no political segmentation whatsoever. Humanity united under a single flag and all that. If the human race was made up primarily of intelligent people, informed and able to think for themselves, we could successfully live in a world where no one has any real power over anyone, because no one would feel the need to be lead.

There would still be communities, of course. And probably even wise people to act as guides to those who desire it. But should anyone try to amass an army, or build an empire, people could quite simply not choose to participate and that would be the end of it.

In the end, what it all comes down to is the people who are involved in it. If there is a group of intelligent, independent people who no longer wish to have leaders, and are all willing to cooperate, anarchy is possible, even in larger scales. If your going to toss in a bunch of people who don't know any better, things will always revert to the old systems, because it's what they know, and, to a degree, it works.

[Necro910]

Throw a rock near their face whilst charging, leaving them distracted for about 0.5 seconds. During which period I have already gouged said target's eyes out with my thumbs. Secondary targets are swinging their arms and about to attack, I kick off the first target in order to escape quickly, losing my balance but am too far away for it to matter. One of the attackers is closer to me than the other and hurls a punch. A swift guiding hand to their wrist and then a hand on their should will send them flying in the direction of their punch (I love Shotokan Karate). While the puncher are dazed by the fall, I could do a number of things. For now I will satisfy with breaking whatever joint is most vulnerable with a stomp, and backing up to attack the next person. This one is more cautious from seeing that I actually know how to fight, and grabs a knife. Lunge to the gut, he's on the ground with a broken neck. Slashing at me? His arm is guided in the direction of his slashing (Up, down, left, or right) and is gouged. The attacker that had a joint broken, is probably limping away at this point, due to seeing that his comrades are dead. I could use a knife and slaughter him, or I could kick his broken joint, and gouge his eyes out as well.

I R UNARMED PRO

*THEN, OUT OF NOWHERE* Hiya! Plastic fork straight to the jugular!

Seriously though, something tells me the fight would go less than ideally if your opponents were at least somewhat organized, and had combat skills greater than that of Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Men.

By hurl/swing/throw a punch, I mean they're doing the generic pull arm back, and launch fist forward punch.

The people in my area have 0 fighting skills, and 0 organization skills. They couldn't touch Shotokan McGouger here even if they were strong. Don't matter how strong you are if your own momentum and weight are working against you 

And on the topic of anarchy, Zero has a point. Once groups began to split, as new systems formed, anarchy would diminish. Although, if the groups were made up of intellectuals, i doubt war would be a problem.

That is why i think the only way anarchy could truly thrive, is for there to be no political segmentation whatsoever. Humanity united under a single flag and all that. If the human race was made up primarily of intelligent people, informed and able to think for themselves, we could successfully live in a world where no one has any real power over anyone, because no one would feel the need to be lead.

There would still be communities, of course. And probably even wise people to act as guides to those who desire it. But should anyone try to amass an army, or build an empire, people could quite simply not choose to participate and that would be the end of it.

In the end, what it all comes down to is the people who are involved in it. If there is a group of intelligent, independent people who no longer wish to have leaders, and are all willing to cooperate, anarchy is possible, even in larger scales. If your going to toss in a bunch of people who don't know any better, things will always revert to the old systems, because it's what they know, and, to a degree, it works.

You would have to murder all the proles, fanatics, followers, and everyone else who is not an intellectual in order to not have dumbasses who will conform/follow-psycho-intellectual. Then you would have to kill the children of the intellectuals who are not one of them, which would cause the parents to be pissed, and the other children to rebel and run off.

Cue RL tantrum spiral.

[King DZA]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Throw a rock near their face whilst charging, leaving them distracted for about 0.5 seconds. During which period I have already gouged said target's eyes out with my thumbs. Secondary targets are swinging their arms and about to attack, I kick off the first target in order to escape quickly, losing my balance but am too far away for it to matter. One of the attackers is closer to me than the other and hurls a punch. A swift guiding hand to their wrist and then a hand on their should will send them flying in the direction of their punch (I love Shotokan Karate). While the puncher are dazed by the fall, I could do a number of things. For now I will satisfy with breaking whatever joint is most vulnerable with a stomp, and backing up to attack the next person. This one is more cautious from seeing that I actually know how to fight, and grabs a knife. Lunge to the gut, he's on the ground with a broken neck. Slashing at me? His arm is guided in the direction of his slashing (Up, down, left, or right) and is gouged. The attacker that had a joint broken, is probably limping away at this point, due to seeing that his comrades are dead. I could use a knife and slaughter him, or I could kick his broken joint, and gouge his eyes out as well.

I R UNARMED PRO

*THEN, OUT OF NOWHERE* Hiya! Plastic fork straight to the jugular!

Seriously though, something tells me the fight would go less than ideally if your opponents were at least somewhat organized, and had combat skills greater than that of Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Men.

By hurl/swing/throw a punch, I mean they're doing the generic pull arm back, and launch fist forward punch.

The people in my area have 0 fighting skills, and 0 organization skills. They couldn't touch Shotokan McGouger here even if they were strong. Don't matter how strong you are if your own momentum and weight are working against you 

And on the topic of anarchy, Zero has a point. Once groups began to split, as new systems formed, anarchy would diminish. Although, if the groups were made up of intellectuals, i doubt war would be a problem.

That is why i think the only way anarchy could truly thrive, is for there to be no political segmentation whatsoever. Humanity united under a single flag and all that. If the human race was made up primarily of intelligent people, informed and able to think for themselves, we could successfully live in a world where no one has any real power over anyone, because no one would feel the need to be lead.

There would still be communities, of course. And probably even wise people to act as guides to those who desire it. But should anyone try to amass an army, or build an empire, people could quite simply not choose to participate and that would be the end of it.

In the end, what it all comes down to is the people who are involved in it. If there is a group of intelligent, independent people who no longer wish to have leaders, and are all willing to cooperate, anarchy is possible, even in larger scales. If your going to toss in a bunch of people who don't know any better, things will always revert to the old systems, because it's what they know, and, to a degree, it works.

You would have to murder all the proles, fanatics, followers, and everyone else who is not an intellectual in order to not have dumbasses who will conform/follow-psycho-intellectual. Then you would have to kill the children of the intellectuals who are not one of them, which would cause the parents to be pissed, and the other children to rebel and run off.

Cue RL tantrum spiral.

I'l have to take your word for it, as i know nothing of Shotokan Karate. For the most part, i'm self trained, so i don't have any specialized fighting style. A lot of what i know has come from experimenting, also trial and error, and i seem to be the most skilled combat-wise in my area. I did take tae kwon do(i think that's how you spell it...) for a short time, but since i ended up moving out of state, i never advanced in it very far.

And back on the subject of humanity:
If such people could not to taught the futility of their ways, which would be the first option, then they can simply be ostracized. let them rot in the hell they create for themselves, if they so wish. Force will only be necessary if they become a threat to the rest of the world.

The only incredibly difficult part would be getting the earth current inhabitants to let go of humanities old habits. After that, later generations will be able to adapt to the new way of life far easier than the current ones.

[Necro910]

-snip-

Fighting Topic: Yeah, Shotokan focuses on staying away from the opponent, using the hips in your punches, and also some other stuff. Jiu Jitsu (?) focuses on grappling and such, I don't know much about Kung Fu and Tae Kwon Do, but Shotokan looks very odd next to the others. The stances are all different so we can punch a lot harder and still stay away, but I cannot say which style is best because I have not learned any others.

Humanity: The only way to manage this would be organizing people into sectors, and then removing the violent ones. But then it would be an bureaucracy, or some such.
 

[ZeroSumHappiness]

Shotokan (and karate in general) is focused on using muscle simultaneously for punching power.  That is, turning your hips, extending legs, arms and making a fist simultaneously for one long, hard strike.

Kung fu usually uses a more whip-like motion where the muscles are used in sequence to primarily impart speed rather than impulse.  This has its own benefits and drawbacks, but is probably slightly less powerful for single strikes but is still very able to impart damage.

Tae kwon do is not a martial art, it's a sport and was specifically designed as one.  (Though there are schools that teach more sporty kung fu/karate and schools that teach tae kwon do as a martial art, in general it's a sport.)  This is reflected in the legal strike zones, the lack of take-down and clinch techniques (normally) and such.  But, it can teach leg strike control with more power behind the strikes than tang soo do.  So it's not a bad basis for learning.

Jiu jitsu is focused on joint locks, I believe and judo on more gross body leverage, though I know far less about those.  (And when I say jiu jitsu, I mean modern Japanese jiu jitsu.  Technically most martial arts can be classified as "jiu jitsu" I believe, and modern Japanese jiu jitsu is actually a reproduction since traditional jiu jitsu was lost some time around WWII.)

(I did a few years of TKD, some jeet kune do and aikido, never advanced very far though because of lack of money, unfortunately.)

If you're actually going to self-train then Bruce Lee's Tao of JKD is a really good philosophical and practical text, but there is no training like real training unfortunately, because of the whole bad habits problem.  (I actually retained the bad habit of kicking for the head when I went from TKD to JKD.)

Yeah, I enjoy martial arts a little too much and could go on and on on the topic.

[Necro910]

Shotokan (and karate in general) is focused on using muscle simultaneously for punching power.  That is, turning your hips, extending legs, arms and making a fist simultaneously for one long, hard strike.

Kung fu usually uses a more whip-like motion where the muscles are used in sequence to primarily impart speed rather than impulse.  This has its own benefits and drawbacks, but is probably slightly less powerful for single strikes but is still very able to impart damage.

Tae kwon do is not a martial art, it's a sport and was specifically designed as one.  (Though there are schools that teach more sporty kung fu/karate and schools that teach tae kwon do as a martial art, in general it's a sport.)  This is reflected in the legal strike zones, the lack of take-down and clinch techniques (normally) and such.  But, it can teach leg strike control with more power behind the strikes than tang soo do.  So it's not a bad basis for learning.

Jiu jitsu is focused on joint locks, I believe and judo on more gross body leverage, though I know far less about those.  (And when I say jiu jitsu, I mean modern Japanese jiu jitsu.  Technically most martial arts can be classified as "jiu jitsu" I believe, and modern Japanese jiu jitsu is actually a reproduction since traditional jiu jitsu was lost some time around WWII.)

(I did a few years of TKD, some jeet kune do and aikido, never advanced very far though because of lack of money, unfortunately.)

If you're actually going to self-train then Bruce Lee's Tao of JKD is a really good philosophical and practical text, but there is no training like real training unfortunately, because of the whole bad habits problem.  (I actually retained the bad habit of kicking for the head when I went from TKD to JKD.)

Yeah, I enjoy martial arts a little too much and could go on and on on the topic.

Indeed. The Shotokan bit I can confirm, but the others will need to be confirmed by their respective users.

Out of the descriptions you've given me, I would say Karate and TDK are the best in my opinion. I couldn't do Jiu Jitsu even if I tried, due to me being a meatless skeleton 

[King DZA]

Can you believe that, at one point, this thread was actually centered around Dwarf Fortress?

I've been self training for years, various workouts/exercises and training methods. Learning, piecing together little bits of various fighting styles i see, and trying out things i think would work well, so that i have a patchwork of basic techniques and rules that i can adapt to different fights, since how i fight depends largely on who i'm against. I'll have to look into that Bruce Lee thing.

Fortunately, my unusual appearance, along with my above-average training, means i'm only rarely in a true fight. Which is good for me, because unless i have some sort of a bloodlust, i really don't like hurting people. Even if they do deserve it, i always feel like an asshole afterward, knowing i should have been able to resolve the problem without violence.
I do enjoy a good sparring match, but for the most part, i advance my skills in combat with the hope i seldom have to use them.

And you may be right, Necro. Perhaps anarchy is not an accurate term for what i'm aiming for...

In a very basic form, my idea is to have a society of cooperating, educated individuals, free of laws or rulers(ironic, considering my username).
There will be no need for laws against murder, since people will know how to solve problems without killing one another. There will be no need for laws against theft, if someone needed food or shelter, the members of the society as a collective would help to provide it, with the assurance that, if they are ever in need, the same will be done for them. It will likely make monetary systems obsolete as well. And there will be no need for rulers, as people will be much more self-sufficient, and know how to take control of their own damn lives.

[Eddren]

An interesting system, but ultimately, impossible.
The only way possible to create a system like this would be the condemnation of fools, which is, in and of itself, foolishness and hypocrisy.

[King DZA]

An interesting system, but ultimately, impossible.
The only way possible to create a system like this would be the condemnation of fools, which is, in and of itself, foolishness and hypocrisy.

Well obviously i'm not expecting everyone to be hyper-geniuses. And of course people will be able to learn and expand their own intelligence as they live in said system, so it's not like we're gonna be throwing people into volcanos if their a little slow to catch up. It's only when people are actively fighting against the society, that they will be ostracized, as they clearly want no part in it. And force only used if they become a threat to its members.

[Teneb]

The problem as a whole is that somone, genius or not, will eventually try to take control. Maybe that someone will be so charismatic other will follow him/her and conquer those that refuse to follow. The problem with humanity itself, is that there must always be a leader. If there isn't, one will appear. People require leaders, and if there is none they'll bicker and fight amongst themselves until one appears, it's just our way. People haven't destroyed the planet yet due to a sense of self-preservation more than anything else, I belive. I pity any alien that decides to invade our planet, given that we are a bunch of violent primates with weapons of mass destruction.


Also, the Mega-Phallus is still under construction. I've been too busy to play DF.

[Gizogin]

Weapons help too 

That they do. But a group a determined individuals can take down a gun toting madman with plastic forks, under the right circumstances.

And now, i want various cutlery and eating utensils to be implemented into DF, so that i may combat the goblin hordes with an artifact spork.

Spoiler: It's not exactly a spork, but... (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPORF]
[NAME:sporf:sporfs]
[SIZE:640]
[SKILL:DAGGER]
[TWO_HANDED:7500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:2100]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10:200:hit:hits:end:2000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:stab:stabs:points:1000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:1000:800:slash:slashes:edge:1250]
This is based on the sporf that has a spoon at one end and a serrated fork at the other.

[Necro910]

And you may be right, Necro. Perhaps anarchy is not an accurate term for what i'm aiming for...

In a very basic form, my idea is to have a society of cooperating, educated individuals, free of laws or rulers(ironic, considering my username).
There will be no need for laws against murder, since people will know how to solve problems without killing one another. There will be no need for laws against theft, if someone needed food or shelter, the members of the society as a collective would help to provide it, with the assurance that, if they are ever in need, the same will be done for them. It will likely make monetary systems obsolete as well. And there will be no need for rulers, as people will be much more self-sufficient, and know how to take control of their own damn lives.

That would be the ideal society.

The problem as a whole is that somone, genius or not, will eventually try to take control. Maybe that someone will be so charismatic other will follow him/her and conquer those that refuse to follow. The problem with humanity itself, is that there must always be a leader. If there isn't, one will appear. People require leaders, and if there is none they'll bicker and fight amongst themselves until one appears, it's just our way. People haven't destroyed the planet yet due to a sense of self-preservation more than anything else, I belive. I pity any alien that decides to invade our planet, given that we are a bunch of violent primates with weapons of mass destruction.

This is what would end up happening.

it's not like we're gonna be throwing people into volcanos if their a little slow to catch up.

Isn't this the average day in DF?