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Author Topic: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:  (Read 41090 times)

elf-fondling human

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #150 on: September 29, 2011, 08:11:41 am »

As always, I vote total anarchy. Let people solve their own problems, and once natural selection really comes into play, the most intelligent/fittest for survival will be the only ones left, and I say they deserve to live.
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Eddren

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #151 on: September 29, 2011, 08:17:25 am »

As always, I vote total anarchy. Let people solve their own problems, and once natural selection really comes into play, the most intelligent/fittest for survival will be the only ones left, and I say they deserve to live.
Won't work. Human nature requires a leader. A few years of Anarchy, then a leader emerges, and it become a Tyranny.
Besides, the words 'Anarchy' and 'Production' do NOT go together.
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Girlinhat

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #152 on: September 29, 2011, 08:21:17 am »

Human nature is not to anarchy.  That would be monkeys.  Human nature involves alpha males, elders, chieftains, matrons, queens, and a very natural ladder system.  At any point of anarchy, one person will say "with these lack of restraints, I will make this other man my inferior and become his leader" and anarchy dissolves itself.

Again I repeat something I find myself saying often.  Man is not meant to enjoy nature, and is not an anarchist.  If it were true, then we wouldn't put ourselves in cities.

elf-fondling human

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #153 on: September 29, 2011, 08:36:56 am »

That's the exact state of mind that ruins the beautiful chaos. Discord will not be pleased.
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Girlinhat

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #154 on: September 29, 2011, 08:38:56 am »

Discord can bathe under my solid gold magma phallus.  I've got friendship, Discord aint got shit on me!

Eddren

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #155 on: September 29, 2011, 08:40:17 am »

That's the exact state of mind that ruins the beautiful chaos. Discord will not be pleased.

No, that's the exact state of mind that's been developed over hundreds of years of people becoming an Anarchy, and then not having it work out.
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Necro910

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #156 on: September 29, 2011, 10:06:40 am »

As always, I vote total anarchy. Let people solve their own problems, and once natural selection really comes into play, the most intelligent/fittest for survival will be the only ones left, and I say they deserve to live.
Won't work. Human nature requires a leader. A few years of Anarchy, then a leader emerges, and it become a Tyranny.
Besides, the words 'Anarchy' and 'Production' do NOT go together.
When there is anarchy, there is nothing preventing me from grabbing my rifle, my revolver, and my hatchet, and taking over the town. Due to everyone in town being a gun-hating Liberal, noone in my area has guns. I doubt anyone in my neighborhood has even touched one, actually.

Then I can start a cult and blow up the nuclear plant. >:D

Musashi

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #157 on: September 29, 2011, 10:16:59 am »

What the fuck is that thread.
*still has read all of it*
*and is compelled to follow what's coming next*
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elf-fondling human

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #158 on: September 29, 2011, 10:52:48 am »

Thing about anarchy is, if people try to take charge, there will always be someone else who doesn't want them to, who will stop at nothing to keep this from happening. In a true anarchy, jealousy and rebellion act as safeguards against hierarchy.
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Necro910

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #159 on: September 29, 2011, 10:57:34 am »

Thing about anarchy is, if people try to take charge, there will always be someone else who doesn't want them to, who will stop at nothing to keep this from happening. In a true anarchy, jealousy and rebellion act as safeguards against hierarchy.
My rifle would help hierarchy. Threat of irradiating the county for the next thousand years would help too  :P

elf-fondling human

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #160 on: September 29, 2011, 11:41:54 am »

Thing about anarchy is, if people try to take charge, there will always be someone else who doesn't want them to, who will stop at nothing to keep this from happening. In a true anarchy, jealousy and rebellion act as safeguards against hierarchy.
My rifle would help hierarchy. Threat of irradiating the county for the next thousand years would help too  :P
I'm sure magma would convince a lot of people to do pretty much anything.
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King DZA

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #161 on: September 29, 2011, 11:58:53 am »

Anarchy is actually incredibly possible, it would simply require humanity to give up the old habits that are quickly becoming futile.

For example, if i get a group of people together, who have all grown tired of rulers and laws, it can easily be agreed that no one has any absolute power over anyone. People can exchange ideas and experiment with various systems, but should anyone try to gain control over the group, the rest simply won't have to listen. If they attempt to use force, rest rest of the group would greatly outnumber them.

Anarchy is possible, but it would not be the chaotic, "everyone for themselves" type that comes to mind. With that, tyranny is inevitable. It would have to be more of a mutual agreement among intelligent individuals.

And enough with this survival of the fittest crap, we all know human beings have some of the worst physical attributes in nature, and the majority of us only thrive off of the achievements of others. If human went by "survival of the fittest" most of us would die out, and the few remaining members of our race that were "fit" enough would be offed by some other force of nature.

If there's any such phrase that applies to humanity, it's "power in numbers".

Necro910

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #162 on: September 29, 2011, 12:16:16 pm »

Anarchy is actually incredibly possible, it would simply require humanity to give up the old habits that are quickly becoming futile.

For example, if i get a group of people together, who have all grown tired of rulers and laws, it can easily be agreed that no one has any absolute power over anyone. People can exchange ideas and experiment with various systems, but should anyone try to gain control over the group, the rest simply won't have to listen. If they attempt to use force, rest rest of the group would greatly outnumber them.

Anarchy is possible, but it would not be the chaotic, "everyone for themselves" type that comes to mind. With that, tyranny is inevitable. It would have to be more of a mutual agreement among intelligent individuals.

And enough with this survival of the fittest crap, we all know human beings have some of the worst physical attributes in nature, and the majority of us only thrive off of the achievements of others. If human went by "survival of the fittest" most of us would die out, and the few remaining members of our race that were "fit" enough would be offed by some other force of nature.

If there's any such phrase that applies to humanity, it's "power in numbers".
Weapons help too  :P

Thing about anarchy is, if people try to take charge, there will always be someone else who doesn't want them to, who will stop at nothing to keep this from happening. In a true anarchy, jealousy and rebellion act as safeguards against hierarchy.
My rifle would help hierarchy. Threat of irradiating the county for the next thousand years would help too  :P
I'm sure magma would convince a lot of people to do pretty much anything.
"Sir, but if we declare war on the neighboring tribe, they'll..."
"YOU DARE QUESTION MY ABILITIES?"
"Oh god, OH GOD PLEASE NO!"
"TO THE SEA WITH YOU!"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo-" *slush*

"BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHH"

King DZA

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #163 on: September 29, 2011, 12:30:26 pm »

Weapons help too  :P

That they do. But a group a determined individuals can take down a gun toting madman with plastic forks, under the right circumstances.

And now, i want various cutlery and eating utensils to be implemented into DF, so that i may combat the goblin hordes with an artifact spork.

ZeroSumHappiness

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Re: After much pondering, I have come to one conclusion:
« Reply #164 on: September 29, 2011, 12:39:31 pm »

The "fitness" of humanity is the power of the brain.  Humans, however, have used that brainpower to bypass survival of the fitness as best they can within humanity.  (Mostly, kind of.  Technically, we've modified the "fitness" parameters such that humans, over the past few hundred years, have been genetically modified to grow larger and taller.  Though, the size difference is also due to differences in diet over time.)

As for anarchy... it only works until someone becomes a warlord, so it tends to break down once the community size grows beyond the maximum that humans can make full personal social connections, which tends to be somewhere between 100 and 300 people.  That is, most humans can only socially connect with ~100-300 people.  Even inside that number, cliques form, but outside that number the cliques form to such a level that tribalism takes over.  Once tribes are formed, even if they are internally anarchistic tribes, they will naturally begin to compete with each other.

Human psychology is geared towards tribalism.  We have not yet figured out how to deal with that, as is obvious when you look at the arguments between nations.

The only way we can properly create a non-conflict-ridden humanity without a single united government would be to defeat resource scarcity such that each tribe will have not only adequate, but so much resources that they never have to worry about resource scarcity again.  This is, however, probably impossible.  I think even with cheap space travel (such that we can colonize) the fact that we can colonize in three dimensions would be dwarfed by the fact that we can grow in population exponentially.

With instantaneous space travel it's possible that the universe is large enough that our exponential growth wouldn't fill it by the time heat death came about.  The premise, both about instantaneous travel and universe size, however, is unlikely.

The other alternative, lacking instantaneous travel and a sufficiently large universe, would be simulated reality.  But then whoever chooses /not/ to go into the VR pods would have a real world and would have the power to kill everyone in the pods.  So maybe we'd have to trick everyone into VR pods.  Of course, if we couldn't solve reproduction-while-in-a-VR-pod we'd have to rely on migrants from the mountainhome to replace those that die of old age.

There is, of course, also the belief that we've already done this before, possibly more than once, and are actually in a virtual reality now.  Of course, in order to maintain a population level that's sustainable while allowing us to believe that the population level is at an unsustainable level either the "real" world is larger than the virtual world or, more likely, some of the people around us would have to actually be AI.  Of course, that could actually just be the third world population.  Oh my, that's actually somewhat depressing to think that some people might actually /be/ lesser.  But again, it is impossible to determine if someone is a p-zombie, so it's still "wrong" by most thought experiments to harm them.

Of course there's the alternative that the world could just name me dictator and I would have our population surplus create the megaproject that would allow space colonization then colonize the universe and limit birth rate such that we would survive until heat death without scarcity.  Many would die, of course, to initially get to that level, but I would be optimizing the standard of living of all of humanity for the rest of the observable universe's time frame.  That's surely a greater good, no?  I vote Zero for dictator.  He would make your life better in the new world.  Assuming you survived to see it.
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