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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 294373 times)

Aqizzar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1710 on: November 21, 2011, 07:32:32 pm »

Also note that he's fixing quite a few formatting errors (repeated numbers, misplaced lines), but yes, it is a visually stunning collection of hard information.  The Eisenhower Interstate System being the  most costly public works project in history is one profound point among many.


Anyway, I've been ignoring most of the last few pages of the thread, but here's some interesting news for the day.  There was a time when I would have considered linking to a story on MSNBC to be inherently tilted (and it is anyway), but as much as I hate to say it, I think anyone here who would have been offended by that isn't reading this anyway.  More importantly, it's first-hand journalism by an MSNBC personality, so it's not like there's anywhere else to look.

Whatever.  Chris Hayes is beefing up his new show, and he managed to score some serious read meat.  Namely, a leaked memo between a lobbying firm and a banking coalition detailing their media plan for discrediting the notion of "Occupy Wall Street" (the name is getting a bit misleading at this point).  As it turns out, the banking group claims they rejected the plan, but the key factor of the memo is where it came from and what it says, because it's hard to think this one lobbying firm is a lone voice in the Republican side of the woods.  Yes, I said Republican and not conservative, because it has an inherently partisan origin and message.

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According to the memo, if Democrats embrace OWS, “This would mean more than just short-term political discomfort for Wall Street. … It has the potential to have very long-lasting political, policy and financial impacts on the companies in the center of the bullseye.”

The memo also suggests that Democratic victories in 2012 should not be the ABA’s biggest concern. “… (T)he bigger concern,” the memo says, “should be that Republicans will no longer defend Wall Street companies.”

Two of the memo’s authors, partners Sam Geduldig and Jay Cranford, previously worked for House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio.

The CLGC memo raises another issue that it says should be of concern to the financial industry -- that OWS might find common cause with the Tea Party. “Well-known Wall Street companies stand at the nexus of where OWS protestors and the Tea Party overlap on angered populism,” the memo says.

Wall Street companies “likely will not be the best spokespeople for their own cause,” according to the memo.  “A big challenge is to demonstrate that these companies still have political strength and that making them a political target will carry a severe political cost.” 

Part of the plan CLGC proposes is to do “statewide surveys in at least eight states that are shaping up to be the most important of the 2012 cycle.”

In other words, a Republican lobbyist is sending unsolicited communication to financial institutions, advising them that their safest way to approach the next election cycle is to lean harder on Republicans and convince Democrats not to capitalize on any popularity (as if they needed telling).  If you look around for more of Hayes' reporting on the subject, you'll find things like Karl Rove gearing a multi-million ad campaign against Elizabeth Warren focused on her taking credit for the Occupy message (from right before Oakland melted down).  Reading the whole memo, you'll also find these ad-men talking about how they need to start treating "Occupy" as a political organization rather than an isolated street protest.  The import is this: the Republican party's advertising brain trust is taking Occupy Wall Street seriously.  Know yourself by your enemies - when you've made an enemy of Karl Rove, you're in the big leagues.


And as long as I'm talking about Chris Hayes, he made an interesting point in an interview today.  If Michael Bloomberg wanted to silence OWS, all he really had to do was wait them out.  Let it get cold, let them get tired, make them think no one is listening.  By sending in some of the largest policing operations the city has seen since the 1970s, it tells the OWS people that they have a voice.  It gives them a rallying point, and draws new membership, attention, and tangible support.

But more than any of that, it's dangerous for everyone OWS is mad at, namely the wealthiest movers and shaker in the country and the political system that protects them from economic reprisal.  Because when people see a thousand NYPD officers arresting people en masse and deliberately smashing their property, or images like UC Davis with police in riot gear pepper-hosing people huddled on the ground like they're watering plants, it raises a question in the mind of the average person who goes through life trying not to weigh themselves down with arguments like this.  It begs them to ask, why would society's big institutions commit this level of force to roughing up a bunch of impotent incoherent shlubs doing nothing more threatening than taking up space?

And it plants the idea - What are they afraid of?  Why are monied interests and some governments so concerned about something this harmless?  Suddenly those shlubs in the street seem a lot more coherent, their arguments start to gain weight, and a person starts gnawing at the idea that maybe, just maybe, the social contract really is bankrupt.  And they start listening for those shlubs to give them an option.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 07:49:46 pm by Aqizzar »
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sluissa

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1711 on: November 21, 2011, 07:53:24 pm »

Honestly, I love those things XKCD does like that. But, it wouldn't be a good idea for a wall mural. It's good info. Really fun for geeks interested parties to look through, but for the average person walking down the street, it's too crowded, too complicated. Too much to look at with too much irrelevant information.
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1712 on: November 21, 2011, 09:11:41 pm »

And it plants the idea - What are they afraid of?  Why are monied interests and some governments so concerned about something this harmless?  Suddenly those shlubs in the street seem a lot more coherent, their arguments start to gain weight, and a person starts gnawing at the idea that maybe, just maybe, the social contract really is bankrupt.  And they start listening for those shlubs to give them an option.

One more idea crops up as well; the fact that the protesters keep going, even after being hit in the head with tear gas grenades or drowned in pepper-spray, nixes the idea that they're just doing it to sate some anti-authoritarian urge. Rather, it makes you think, if it's in your best interests to face potentially life threatening violent physical force, how bad must things already be?
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1713 on: November 21, 2011, 09:17:49 pm »

Is that the third or the fourth time that memo has been linked here? :P

Your post makes some very good points though.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1714 on: November 21, 2011, 09:21:35 pm »

Is that the third or the fourth time that memo has been linked here? :P

I mentioned I've been ignoring the last few pages of the thread, didn't I?  When I hear people whinging about how they think the whole world is coming to get them and violence might be the real answer, I take five until I have something to talk about.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1715 on: November 21, 2011, 09:32:43 pm »

So, a judgment has seen the Vancouver protesters evicted from the place they were camping by the city. A judge ruled they could be forced to leave.

They moved down the street to the provincial courthouse.
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Neonivek

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1716 on: November 21, 2011, 10:42:54 pm »

Well the Occupy Movement here is pretty much over.

Frankly I am not surprised this may not amount to anything as they never got a solid dogma.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1717 on: November 21, 2011, 10:44:33 pm »

Well the Occupy Movement here is pretty much over.

Frankly I am not surprised this may not amount to anything as they never got a solid dogma.

Over here meaning over where, might I ask?  That's kind of an important detail.
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Neonivek

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1718 on: November 21, 2011, 10:45:47 pm »

Well the Occupy Movement here is pretty much over.

Frankly I am not surprised this may not amount to anything as they never got a solid dogma.

Over here meaning over where, might I ask?  That's kind of an important detail.

Occupy Toronto.

Their being kicked out of the park they are camping in basically.

Though listening to the debates I am not sure if the rich even understand why there is a disparity in power. Usually they will say things like "We arn't always successful" and will refer to people banning together as more powerful then they are... but the biggest difference is that for the super rich their casual effort can only be beat by the combined effort of many people who are dead set against what is being purposed.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 10:52:07 pm by Neonivek »
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Kogan Loloklam

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Occupying Colorado Springs
« Reply #1719 on: November 22, 2011, 12:02:11 am »

I'm actually finding my own local occupy wallstreet effort quite funny.
75 people or less in a park about the size of a city block. It does NOT feel crowded at all. The effort is actually pretty laughable...

So, our Mayor says these guys are a public health hazard and all kinds of crap, so decides to not renew a permit allowing them to have shelter. He sends in the police the day after he decides not to renew it to confiscate all the structures.
I'm sitting here going "Really? Our Homeless population on the greenway is more disruptive than these guys and more in violation of the law, and THIS is the unsanitary group? A group who setup their own sanitation and kept the park cleaner than it's been in years?
It's ridiculous. Nobody is being clubbed, but it makes you go "WTF?!"
Of course it's not like our "protesters" weren't willing to take advantage of this. Look at this link
Particularly pay attention to the guy with the bowl at 9:40

Anyone Curious, Colorado Springs has a population of over 400,000. So what you are seeing is the 0.02% of my city ;)

It's cold, what can I say?
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Zangi

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1720 on: November 22, 2011, 01:08:20 am »

Too bad this thing didn't start to get into swing during Spring or Early Fall/Late Summer...  You'd have more people out there now.
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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1721 on: November 22, 2011, 01:11:16 am »

There are usually about 20 people at mine (from a town of 5,000.) If you add up everyone who has shown up to at least two of our weekly marches, though, we have maybe 150. That's 3%, fairly good for 10 degree (F) weather and three feet of snow.

When Springtime returns, I expect we'll get about 50 at a time. Winter sucks here.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1722 on: November 22, 2011, 02:18:01 am »

What percentage of the population of Antarctica would this be, I wonder?

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1723 on: November 22, 2011, 02:44:03 am »

What percentage of the population of Antarctica would this be, I wonder?

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Good to see that 60% of the people who live in Antarctica support the cause.
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Bauglir

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1724 on: November 22, 2011, 03:22:49 am »

You think that's something? 90% of the inhabitants of this very room I'm in support the cause (with a margin of error of 10% - a sample size of 1 makes for very noisy data).
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