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[Urist_McArathos]

Mmm....I don't like this.

Imiknorris raises some good points about holes in Orangebottle's claim, yet I do believe Orangebottle's remarks about being confused by his role.

Not so much the cop/vig duo (roles are chosen randomly, so I could see cop vig happening instead of say, cop/doctor easily), but the whole "How the hell are there two kills AND I was blocked!?!?" part.

The question is, which one is right?

[Urist Imiknorris]

I'm noticing that four people still haven't voted, yet nobody's clamoring for an extension. The day ends in five hours, people.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I honestly don't know how to answer this. If I say I forgot, I'm lying - you'd argue that I should know how many scum there are, that it's a really important number, and that no way I could've forgotten it. I could argue that I never read it, but that's total bullshit. Yet, I can see no other way to answer this question. All I can say at this point is: What the fuck, brain?

You know what? I feel like an idiot. This mistake is making you look more like flailing town than flailing scum. If you were mafia, you'd know damn well how many mafia there were, because you'd be the only one left. Unvote.

Native, you're still being awfully quiet. Why? Nothing to say? You've been doing that thing that I watch for - being online, having had your question answered, and not posting. Also, your reason for not believing Orangebottle sounds an awful lot like mine, which worries me far more than not posting. Care to elaborate on your case against Orangebottle?

[Orangebottle]

Extend.
I don't think no-lynching today is the best option; there's still the confusion about vig/sk and there's a scum. If we don't lynch today, there's two kills. Assuming both kills hit town, and we have an SK instead of a vigilante, then we lose.  Four players, two non-town, and if we lynch one then the other kills one of the remaining townies.

We need to hit the right target today.

[Simple]

Day 2

Votecount:
-Urist_McArathos:
-Jim Groovester:
-Orangebottle: NativeForeigner
-Urist Imiknorris:
-NativeForeigner: Urist Imiknorris
-Shark:

Not Voting : Orangebottle, Urist_McArathos, Jim Groovester, Shark,

1 more to extend !
5  more to shorten.
The Day will end Wednesday 8 PM GMT. (~2.5 hours from now)
---
Let me know if i missed something.

[Urist_McArathos]

Extend.

I'm fairly convinced about the cop claim, and need time after work to hunt for scum again.

[NativeForeigner]

Extend

I honestly don't know how to answer this. If I say I forgot, I'm lying - you'd argue that I should know how many scum there are, that it's a really important number, and that no way I could've forgotten it. I could argue that I never read it, but that's total bullshit. Yet, I can see no other way to answer this question. All I can say at this point is: What the fuck, brain?

You know what? I feel like an idiot. This mistake is making you look more like flailing town than flailing scum. If you were mafia, you'd know damn well how many mafia there were, because you'd be the only one left. Unvote.

You don't think he could be making that part up? I wouldn't put it past him. See my question to him.

Native, you're still being awfully quiet. Why? Nothing to say? You've been doing that thing that I watch for - being online, having had your question answered, and not posting. Also, your reason for not believing Orangebottle sounds an awful lot like mine, which worries me far more than not posting. Care to elaborate on your case against Orangebottle?

We've been over this. A little something called real life. Sometimes, when it likes to take over, I only have time to post in a game or two, or sometimes I only have time to check the forums to keep up, sometimes on my phone, which keeps me logged in until I log out manually. That's why checking if someone's been online isn't really a good indication.

So my case sounds like yours. What's your point? Do you really expect every part of every case from every person to be completely unique, or at least reworded to be unrecognizable? If that's what you really expect, then you're going to be really disappointed. I don't trust his claim, and now that a little bit of the pressure is off, he's trying to play pro-town, but also doesn't ask anybody anything and hasn't this entire time.

I really don't like how you've been attacking me without having a case, it's like you feel like you have to throw your vote around when it's not on OB and you make a stab at building a case at me and fail. It's just fishy to me. If you're going to try to attack me, have a good reason or at the very least some good questions. This "you haven't posted but have been online!" bullshit gets old, especially this late in the game.

Another thing, I haven't seen you ask ANYONE questions other than OB, and that worries me. I want your opinion on everybody and I want you to start hunting someone other than OB, even if it's me. Now.

OB: I can see where that would be seen as confusing. I haven't seen you asking a lot of questions either, only defending yourself. Now that the pressure is slightly off, who do you suspect and why?

Also, explain this (Imiknorris, pay attention to this): In this post you CLEARLY know how many scum are left, one. Because it attributes to your confusion about being roleblocked. But in this post, you try to play it off like you had no clue. You even managed to ignore the mod. Explain yourself.

[Simple]

The Day is extended to Thursday 8 PM GMT.

2 more to extend again.
4 more to shorten.
---

[Shark]

I honestly don't know how to answer this. If I say I forgot, I'm lying - you'd argue that I should know how many scum there are, that it's a really important number, and that no way I could've forgotten it. I could argue that I never read it, but that's total bullshit. Yet, I can see no other way to answer this question. All I can say at this point is: What the fuck, brain?

You know what? I feel like an idiot. This mistake is making you look more like flailing town than flailing scum. If you were mafia, you'd know damn well how many mafia there were, because you'd be the only one left. Unvote.

Native, you're still being awfully quiet. Why? Nothing to say? You've been doing that thing that I watch for - being online, having had your question answered, and not posting. Also, your reason for not believing Orangebottle sounds an awful lot like mine, which worries me far more than not posting. Care to elaborate on your case against Orangebottle?

Imiknorris, This isn't the first time you've accused people of how similar their arguments sound to yours. Worried about your image?

[Urist Imiknorris]

So my case sounds like yours. What's your point? Do you really expect every part of every case from every person to be completely unique, or at least reworded to be unrecognizable? If that's what you really expect, then you're going to be really disappointed.

No, but I would expect that you would at least question him about the holes in his argument. One question about why he was reluctant to claim isn't enough.

Another thing, I haven't seen you ask ANYONE questions other than OB, and that worries me. I want your opinion on everybody and I want you to start hunting someone other than OB, even if it's me. Now.

McArathos: He's been doing a good job of questioning my intentions. Probably town.
Jim:  Same as McArathos.
You: You know what I find strange? You weren't hunting anyone except Orangebottle either (if you can even call that hunting). If you're going to call me out for not hunting anyone else, at least have the sense to hunt other people yourself.
OB: I don't know what to think about him. Every time I'm sure he's fakeclaiming scum, I see something he said that makes me think he's just dumb town, and every time I think he's town I see something that makes him look scummy.
Shark: He's been making some good points, but hasn't been questioning anyone.

Imiknorris, This isn't the first time you've accused people of how similar their arguments sound to yours. Worried about your image?

Really? The only other case I can see of me accusing someone of parroting was me asking Native if he was just going to parrot you (and Jim) or actually contribute. Would you mind pointing out any others I missed?

More will come after class - I've things to do and I've probably taken too much time already. Native, expect questions to answer.

[NativeForeigner]

So my case sounds like yours. What's your point? Do you really expect every part of every case from every person to be completely unique, or at least reworded to be unrecognizable? If that's what you really expect, then you're going to be really disappointed.

No, but I would expect that you would at least question him about the holes in his argument. One question about why he was reluctant to claim isn't enough.

It was what I was most interested in, the holes have already been questioned, why would I bother repeating the same questions?

You: You know what I find strange? You weren't hunting anyone except Orangebottle either (if you can even call that hunting). If you're going to call me out for not hunting anyone else, at least have the sense to hunt other people yourself.

Correction: OB's the only one I've been hunting-ish actively. I've still had the presence of mind to ask questions of other people, whereas you've only been answering questions from other people and occasionally poking OB with a question or two. I'll admit, I haven't been hunting as much as I should, but that gives you no excuse. So how about you get to hunting, hm?

What are your thoughts on what I pointed out about OB in my last post?

Native, expect questions to answer.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Jim Groovester]

Extend.

Nice of you to do that.

Who do you suspect? A player that pounded on some newbie, admitted to making up a bunch of stuff to appease me, claimed Cop that was roleblocked on Night 1, and now doesn't have any suspicions, sounds pretty fishy to me.

Native, you're still being awfully quiet. Why? Nothing to say? You've been doing that thing that I watch for - being online, having had your question answered, and not posting. Also, your reason for not believing Orangebottle sounds an awful lot like mine, which worries me far more than not posting. Care to elaborate on your case against Orangebottle?

So, you give people crap for the same reason you were about to lynch Orangebottle over?

Imiknorris, This isn't the first time you've accused people of how similar their arguments sound to yours. Worried about your image?

Right.

Is that the only thing you suspect him for?

[Simple]

Day 2

Votecount:
-Urist_McArathos:
-Jim Groovester:
-Orangebottle: NativeForeigner
-Urist Imiknorris: Shark
-NativeForeigner: Urist Imiknorris
-Shark:

Not Voting : Orangebottle, Urist_McArathos, Jim Groovester,

2 more to extend.
4  more to shorten.
The Day will end Thursday 8 PM GMT
---

[Urist Imiknorris]

Native: Let's see what you've done so far this game:

Regardless, my vote stays on you until either you can prove you're not scum or someone scummier slips up.

Again, the burden of proof is on the town, not the scum. Yes, I have pointed this out before - we'll get back to that.

Why are you being so cautious? Ask questions, assert your suspicious, apply some pressure. Don't just sit around and wait.

You then proceed to sit on your vote against Diakron for the rest of the day, save for a bit of poking at Andrew. Why? Why not pressure Andrew while your vote remains on Diakron?

Day 2: You begin by parroting Shark, using the lame excuse of "I got ninja'd." When I asked you about the burden-of-proof post above, you proceeded to misunderstand it and assume I meant that town's goal was to prove that the scum were town. That makes no sense at all, so why would you assume that I meant it that way? Then your entire case against Orangebottle was that he was tunneling on Shark, which isn't much by itself. Then OB claimed and you just said that it was full of holes, without actually exploring any of them. Why so passive?

So, if your vote's on Orangebottle because he was tunneling on Shark and his claim is full of holes:

What do you think of the fact that he stopped tunneling on Shark?
Would you like to point out some of these holes, other than the one that's already been discussed regarding the mafia miscount?

What are your thoughts on what I pointed out about OB in my last post?

He's either scum or really confused - I see more of the latter, especially considering that he's having similar problems in Ockham's Mafia as well.



Shark: Never mind, found it. Your entire argument against Orangebottle was that he was more focused on staying alive than finding scum, and making things up to not get lynched. My argument against him was:

Quite simply, you're not approaching this with a town mentality, and trying to bullshit your way out of a lynch is borderline obvscumming.

I was concerned that you simply decided to use someone else's argument as an excuse to lynch Orangebottle.

Jim:

So, you give people crap for the same reason you were about to lynch Orangebottle over?

I give people crap for not adding to the discussion.

McArathos, Jim, Orangebottle: Where do your suspicions lie?

[NativeForeigner]

Are you dense? I'm pretty sure I've already countered ALL of this.

I didn't misunderstand anything, that's what you were saying. It's not MY job to prove that somebody else is town. That's there own damn job. Why would I try to prove the very person I think is scum is town?

Already told you, didn't pressure Andrew because I got busy and I felt nothing else useful would come out of D1. And what happened? Any poking or pressuring on Andrew would have been wasted effort.

I did get ninja'd, it happens a lot when several people are active and it'll happen to you.

That wasn't my entire case against OB. If you bothered to do your research, you would see that I had suspicions for him being the last to vote Dia and then attacking Shark... for voting Dia. I let it be for a while because it was going nowhere and picked it back up when he started to fall apart and was tunneling Shark. I didn't unvote him because his claim seemed fishy to me, and it still does. I'll quote Jim on this, "Who do you suspect? A player that pounded on some newbie, admitted to making up a bunch of stuff to appease me, claimed Cop that was roleblocked on Night 1, and now doesn't have any suspicions, sounds pretty fishy to me." and I'll also throw in lying.

I think he only stopped tunneling Shark because everybody was catching on to him, and now that he can't go after the weakest player, he doesn't know what to do. Evident by his lack of questioning and suspicions.

Unless you're bullshitting in this post, you know damn well what holes I'm talking about.

Better luck next time.

He's having problems with outright lying in Ockham's, you say? Or the Mafia count? Because if it's lying, that's no excuse, and if it's Mafia count, you're aware that Ockham's isn't very clear about that, right? So in either case, why are you trying to protect OB? He lied and you're trying to tell me that he's confused town, citing a completely different game as evidence?