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[Mormota]

You can't wait for the scum to reveal themselves. You need to go out and make them reveal themselves. Start picking apart what they do, and digging at their answers and their arguments.

ed boy, your pressure vote for Powder Miner isn't scumhunting. While I believe your questions about Jim are valid, a pressure vote alone isn't enough to reveal PM as scum or town, unless it gets him lynched. So why aren't you investigating Powder Miner?

Mormota, you're being vague. What didn't you find satisfactory about ed boy's questions?

You would find that before I asked him about it, he was not asking questions, simply sitting on his vote. I STILL wish that Ed boy would respond to that point, but he has been playing satisfactory since then. Unvote.

Shakerag, didn't you find anyone else suspicious other than Mindmaker? Why did you focus on him alone, not even bothering to ask a few questions from other people?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Sufficient. Unvote Mormota.

Vote ed boy for the reasons I listed above. I'll probably have more questions for you soon, Mormota.

[Shakerag]

Shakerag, didn't you find anyone else suspicious other than Mindmaker? Why did you focus on him alone, not even bothering to ask a few questions from other people?

I think I responded to a similar question from one of the ICs earlier, but basically I first was suspicious of Powder Miner, and later Mindmaker stood out to me more.  Looking back at my earlier notes, I was pretty suspicious of Orangebottle (whoops), but I was focusing on Mindmaker to see if I could get him to panic and slip up.  I was expecting a number of different outcomes, but him up and quitting derailed my mental train of thought so badly, it took a while to clean up the clusterfuck of mental train cars and bits of mental train passengers. 

tl;dr - lol tunnel vision

[ed boy]

Unvote

Regarding D1 voting:

ed boy's vote stayed on Jafferey/Shakerag for most of the day, occasionally asking other people questions, but mostly sitting on his vote against a lurker. Once Jafferey was replaced and Shakerag proved to be more active, ed boy changed his vote to mipe9, four posts after Mindmaker did. His was the vote that sealed mipe's fate. ed boy, were you intentionally going after easy lynches?

I put a pressure vote on Jafferey when he was not being active. At that point in the game, people haven't posted enough for me to be able to form a strong opinion, and lurkiness was pretty much the only thing that I could properly look for. Once shakerag replaced him, lurkiness was not an issue and thus I had no reason to keep the vote on him. As for voting for mipe9, I explained myself quite thoroughly in the post before I voted why I thought he was the scummiest player.

Mormota, according to the LT, you seem to be pretty single-minded in chainsawing me. Apart from one minor question to IronyOwl and your recent question to Shakerag, your only non-responsive actions have been hacking away at me. Why have you not been looking at someone else?

Vote ed boy for the reasons I listed above. I'll probably have more questions for you soon, Mormota.

You seem quick to vote. You didn't give my any time to respond between your FOS post and your votepost. The day's nearing it's end, and if you're trying to pressure me into doing something with that vote, then I don't have a lot of time to do it. Your reasons are pretty flimsy, too. You state that when I switch my vote away from someone when they stop doing something scummy as if it's a bad thing, and then you ask me why I voted for mipe9 when others have asked me, and I explained perfectly well why if you would have bothered to actually read the vote post. Do you have any better material, or is that it, Urist Imiknorris?

[Jim Groovester]

And how did mipe9's passive, reactive play differ from Mindmaker's passive, reactive play?  Why vote mipe9 over Mindmaker?  Also:

You've really got it out for Mindmaker, don't you?

If you can't see the difference then you have serious tunnelvision. Mindmaker asked and answered more questions and in greater detail than mipe9.

Can you seriously tell me, with a straight face, that you were "mostly pleased" with Mindmaker's scumhunting at that point? 

I don't expect perfection, I expect progress.

Now quit being a giant douche and looking down at people you think play the game worse than you.

Also, Jim, what's your strategy on replacements?  How much weight will you give Mindmaker's posts compared to Urists's posts?  Since he's coming in mid-ish D2, what do you think will give you the best read of him?  Pressing?  Or sitting back and watching?  I'm still waiting for you to jump in on scumhunting and show us nubfaces how it's done.

I generally weigh what the replacement has to say greater than the player he's replacing, because it's more current.

Urist Imiknorris is doing a good job of making himself readable. If there is an issue I want to press him on I will press him on it, but there are none so far.

Mormota, according to the LT, you seem to be pretty single-minded in chainsawing me.

That word's usage is specific, and you're using it incorrectly.

Chainsawing refers to when a scum player attacks a player who is attacking his scumbuddy, to discredit the attacker and take momentum away from the attack.

It's a scumtell people like to call before anybody flips scum, when they really shouldn't.

Powder Miner has disappeared.

[Urist Imiknorris]

You voted Jaffery to pressure him, then after you stopped RVS questions (minus the usual attached vote), you asked Orangebottle's opinion on Jafferey, reminded the latter that he hadn't answered your question yet, responded to Mindmaker's post re: time left in D1, then immediately after Shakerag replaced in, posted:

I was pressuring Jafferey, but that plan's been scuppered now.

If you were town, you would know by then that the only plan you can afford to have is to find someone suspicious, then hammer away at them until they've given up enough information for you to decide whether they were town or scum. It's even in the OP, under the spoiler labeled "Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience." As for mipe9, your argument was that he hadn't been contibuting in any useful way. The same argument could have been applied to Mindmaker (first question after RVS is to Shakerag asking him what he thinks of mipe9 [in the same post as he votes for mipe], then gets defensive), Powder Miner (hops from player to player asking questions and never really following up on them), or Mormota (completely stops asking questions between the start of Jafferey's lurking and immediately before his replacement) - but mipe9 was the one who had the votes at the time. As I said, easy lynch.

You then proceeded to OMGUS me (with a FoS instead of a vote - is there a term for that?) when I called you out on it. That's not helping your case in my eyes. Why would my voting for you cast suspicion on me? Ed boy, you are either scum or lazy, and neither helps town.


As for why my FoS changed to a vote so quickly, the only reason I didn't vote for you immediately is because I wanted to hear Mormota's answer to my question. Had he not answered so soon after I FoS'd you, I would have waited for you to respond.

Also, I too am suspicious of Powder Miner's disappearance, but it isn't as important as your scumminess.

[Shakerag]

You've really got it out for Mindmaker, don't you?

If you can't see the difference then you have serious tunnelvision. Mindmaker asked and answered more questions and in greater detail than mipe9.

Bold part added by me.  Stop throwing up your IC-asshole-shield and deflecting my posts.  I'm clearly analyzing your behavior right now; Mindmaker just happens to be part of what I'm probing you about.  About the bolded part here, maybe you can go back and show me what I missed, because a large part of why I was focusing on Mindmaker in the first place was exactly that he wasn't asking questions. 

I don't expect perfection, I expect progress.

Now quit being a giant douche and looking down at people you think play the game worse than you.

I'm not under any illusion that I'm a better player than anyone here.  Hell, if I was the driving force that made Mindmaker quit, then I feel kind of shitty about that.  I am under the impression that this kind of game may involve tactics where you have to bear down on someone to get them to panic, and pick apart everything they do. Since it is a game, I'm not trying to make it personal nor take it personally if someone were to do that to me. 

But again, I'm not calling into question Mindmaker's play per se, but your analysis of it.  What kinds of progress are you talking about?  Going from not scumhunting to ... more not scumhunting?

Re: Powder Miner - Are you really serious, Jim?  I don't exactly have any love for the guy myself, but come on.  The lurker tracker has him as posting 22 hours ago ... only 2 more hours than IronyOwl.  And I know I've seen you go 20+ hours without posting at least once before, if not more.  If this is what the experienced players do for scumhunting, then it must obviously be way over my head.  Maybe you can throw me a few crumbs of wisdom about why Powder Miner is getting a vote for something you've done yourself.

[ed boy]

You voted Jaffery to pressure him, then after you stopped RVS questions (minus the usual attached vote), you asked Orangebottle's opinion on Jafferey, reminded the latter that he hadn't answered your question yet, responded to Mindmaker's post re: time left in D1, then immediately after Shakerag replaced in, posted:

I was pressuring Jafferey, but that plan's been scuppered now.

If you were town, you would know by then that the only plan you can afford to have is to find someone suspicious, then hammer away at them until they've given up enough information for you to decide whether they were town or scum. It's even in the OP, under the spoiler labeled "Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience." As for mipe9, your argument was that he hadn't been contibuting in any useful way. The same argument could have been applied to Mindmaker (first question after RVS is to Shakerag asking him what he thinks of mipe9 [in the same post as he votes for mipe], then gets defensive), Powder Miner (hops from player to player asking questions and never really following up on them), or Mormota (completely stops asking questions between the start of Jafferey's lurking and immediately before his replacement) - but mipe9 was the one who had the votes at the time. As I said, easy lynch.

You then proceeded to OMGUS me (with a FoS instead of a vote - is there a term for that?) when I called you out on it. That's not helping your case in my eyes. Why would my voting for you cast suspicion on me? Ed boy, you are either scum or lazy, and neither helps town.


As for why my FoS changed to a vote so quickly, the only reason I didn't vote for you immediately is because I wanted to hear Mormota's answer to my question. Had he not answered so soon after I FoS'd you, I would have waited for you to respond.

Also, I too am suspicious of Powder Miner's disappearance, but it isn't as important as your scumminess.

The plan of putting pressure on a lurker is obviously going to be scuppered if the lurker is no longer a lurker.

As for the lack of contributions, I'm sure that plenty of the others were making very little contributions. However, mipe9's contributions were worth even less, as I couldn't make heads or tails of some of the stuff that he posted (what on earth was that fakeclaim at the start about?).

As for OMGUSing, I would be hesitatent to call it that. It's the speed at which you jumped from no suspicion to FOS to vote that worried me (just as Jim's sudden vote worries me), not the fact that it was a vote for me. With the game so close to the end of the day, a vote at this stage is pretty serious, and you seem to be throwing yours around rather lightly.

Mormota, according to the LT, you seem to be pretty single-minded in chainsawing me.

That word's usage is specific, and you're using it incorrectly.

Chainsawing refers to when a scum player attacks a player who is attacking his scumbuddy, to discredit the attacker and take momentum away from the attack.

It's a scumtell people like to call before anybody flips scum, when they really shouldn't.

Powder Miner has disappeared.

My bad, I didn't mean it to be used in the 'scum defending scum' sense, I meant it to be used in the 'attack someone because of their attack' sense.

Also, why are you so quick to condemn powder miner? None of your recent posts have been hammering away at him, and you haven't shown any attention to him at all recently, which makes your sudden change of heart very suspicious. Given how close we are to the day's end, I can't believe that this is a simple pressure vote. You seem very keen for powder miner to hang for a mild case of inactivity, and I don't like that at all, Jim Groovester.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Regarding Powder Miner's inactivity, he seems to be on now, just dicking around in RTD.

[Powder Miner]

My order of checking the forums:
RTD
Other Forum Games
Mafia

And I was gone yesterday through now because I have Boy Scouts and school.
Jesus.

Annyway, Urist Imiknorris, I'm also a little suspicious of Shakerag for not doing much other than stare at Mindmaker. He should be scumhunting others, he isn;t and Mindmaker isn't answering him at all.

[Urist Imiknorris]

The plan of putting pressure on a lurker is obviously going to be scuppered if the lurker is no longer a lurker.

My question is why was it your plan in the first place?

As for OMGUSing, I would be hesitatent to call it that. It's the speed at which you jumped from no suspicion to FOS to vote that worried me (just as Jim's sudden vote worries me), not the fact that it was a vote for me.

There is never no suspicion with me. There are only possible scum, might be scum, likely scum, and dead. At this point you are simply the likeliest I can see.

Annyway, Urist Imiknorris, I'm also a little suspicious of Shakerag for not doing much other than stare at Mindmaker. He should be scumhunting others, he isn;t and Mindmaker isn't answering him at all.

I am the Mindmaker. It is me.

[ed boy]

The plan of putting pressure on a lurker is obviously going to be scuppered if the lurker is no longer a lurker.

My question is why was it your plan in the first place?

It was the start of the game. At that point, there is little material on anyone, because everyone has been posting so little. Encouraging other people to post is important because I need them to post so I can get material on them. He was posting less than the others, so I tried to encourage him to post more, so I could form an opinion.

I probably could have phrased that better, but it's late, I'm tired, and I'm going to bed.

[Jim Groovester]

Also, I too am suspicious of Powder Miner's disappearance, but it isn't as important as your scumminess.

Are you now?

Interesting that you FoS him after I vote him.

You've really got it out for Mindmaker, don't you?

If you can't see the difference then you have serious tunnelvision. Mindmaker asked and answered more questions and in greater detail than mipe9.

Bold part added by me.  Stop throwing up your IC-asshole-shield and deflecting my posts.  I'm clearly analyzing your behavior right now; Mindmaker just happens to be part of what I'm probing you about.  About the bolded part here, maybe you can go back and show me what I missed, because a large part of why I was focusing on Mindmaker in the first place was exactly that he wasn't asking questions. 

You think what I've been doing is me being an asshole? Ha, you don't even know the tenth of it. This is me being nice.

I'm tired of justifying my vote on mipe9. I stand by what I said. If you can't tell the clear difference between their playstyles then you're tunneling.

I never said Mindmaker's play was flawless but it was certainly better than mipe9's.

But again, I'm not calling into question Mindmaker's play per se, but your analysis of it.  What kinds of progress are you talking about?  Going from not scumhunting to ... more not scumhunting?

It's not your job to rate another player's performance. That's mine. So how about you quit giving me shit for doing my job, you smug little prick.

I don't have to explain my thought process for what state I think a player is when all some newbie who thinks he's hot shit wants is for more material to take the worst spin on to justify a worthless vote.

You know, there's always one player who decides he's got the skillz to take on the ICs and give them a run for their money. This game it's you. How about instead of trying to prove that you're hot shit by trying to knock me down a peg, you focus on improving?

Don't bother denying it. I know it when I see it. There are many things I can notice immediately, and little newbie hotshits are one of them.

Re: Powder Miner - Are you really serious, Jim?  I don't exactly have any love for the guy myself, but come on.  The lurker tracker has him as posting 22 hours ago ... only 2 more hours than IronyOwl.  And I know I've seen you go 20+ hours without posting at least once before, if not more.  If this is what the experienced players do for scumhunting, then it must obviously be way over my head.  Maybe you can throw me a few crumbs of wisdom about why Powder Miner is getting a vote for something you've done yourself.

Oh, is all we're looking at the lurker tracker here? Well, you make it sound like I should be giving IronyOwl shit for disappearing for twenty four hours too.

Maybe when this post starts to look like this post I'll think about it.

I couldn't remember seeing any notable contributions from Powder Miner for a very long while, so I voted him for it, partly because I find it suspicious and partly to get him to post some more.

Also, why are you so quick to condemn powder miner? None of your recent posts have been hammering away at him, and you haven't shown any attention to him at all recently, which makes your sudden change of heart very suspicious. Given how close we are to the day's end, I can't believe that this is a simple pressure vote. You seem very keen for powder miner to hang for a mild case of inactivity, and I don't like that at all, Jim Groovester.

See the answer to Shakerag.

I guess you're right that it is close to the deadline. Extend.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I'm getting tired and complacent, so I'm gonna just Unvote and come back tomorrow. Extend.

Also, I too am suspicious of Powder Miner's disappearance, but it isn't as important as your scumminess.

Are you now?

Interesting that you FoS him after I vote him.

I originally was suspicious of his lack of scumhunting. His absence made me slightly more suspicious, and he hadn't answered my question (despite being on the forums about four hours after I asked it), so I thought a FoS might get him to respond a bit sooner.

[Shakerag]

God.  It's like I hit a nerve or something.  Thanks for putting a smile on my face tonight, Jim.  But, I'm half in the bag right now, so I'll have to leave off analysis for the morning.  Just one thing though:

If you've got legitimate issue with one of the ICs, you better not give IronyOwl or me any slack just because we're the ICs. We're still players in the game, and we could still be scum just like any one of you.

Avoiding asking questions because of our positions is akin to not asking us questions for any other reason. Taking on more powerful players is probably something a lot of everybody is going to have to go through at some point in their mafia career, so they might as well learn it here.

Might as well, Jim.  Might as well.