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[Shark]

Jim is unreadable to me. I don't have the slightest clue. He's been playing perfectly as far as I can tell.

Buddy buddy bo buddy bananafana fo fuddy. Fee fi fo fuddy, buddy.

How come I get your flattery?

It's legit, I can't read you at all. I don't know how you're interpreting my answer, but i'm saying that I can't find anything you've done that's scummy or questionable.

You are attacking Urist for petty reasons. Anything else to go on?

If you think it's petty, why are you asking him the same question? I don't have much else to go on right now, kinda why I asked the question.

Why are you still ignoring Jim?

My question includes how he's been jumping on other arguments a lot. I want an explanation for it. Also, i'm not ignoring jim, I answered him the post after he told me I missed it.

Why are you always telling me i'm missing questions I answered? Are you trying to get me to say something? It's a bit far-fetched at this point that you would make the same mistake again. What are you up to?

[NativeForeigner]

God damn, it's like I can't even read.

I'm not up to anything, I legitimately made the same damn mistake twice.

[Urist_McArathos]

Jim is unreadable to me. I don't have the slightest clue. He's been playing perfectly as far as I can tell.
The other 3 I have some questions for.
You are attacking Urist for petty reasons. Anything else to go on?
Irony, You say there's no room to mess up. Are you worried that i'd get hammered because of your first vote?
Urist, you've been hopping on other people's arguments a lot, when you're not joking around. Anything meaningful to contribute?

Well, as Native pointed out, you're asking me the exact same question anyway, so either it's not petty or YOU don't have anything meaningful to contribute, and are just trying to look active.

Yes, it is the same question; asking why I'm hopping on other people's arguments is the same as parroting, which Native asked me about.  Just because you phrased it differently doesn't make it a different question.  "Are you a virgin?" and "have you had sex yet?" are two differently phrased statements, but they ask the same thing.

Regardless, no I don't have much that someone else hasn't said first.  It's early on in a small game setup; there's not a lot going on and we've barely begun to move out of RVS.  It's hardly shocking that when I come on all I can find is "Yep, that's something I want answered too and they haven't said anything yet".  When there's so little to go on, observant players are bound to pounce on the same thing.

That said, what bothers me most about your response is that Native was being petty, yet you did the same thing (with the added bonus of saying "When you're not joking around", as though I'm splitting my time between parroting and being a useless jester-face instead of having made ONE joke while looking for scumtells).  Inconsistent behavior, and implied slander of my town play.  You're off to a rocky start in my book, Shark.

Jim is unreadable to me. I don't have the slightest clue. He's been playing perfectly as far as I can tell.

Buddy buddy bo buddy bananafana fo fuddy. Fee fi fo fuddy, buddy.

How come I get your flattery?

It's legit, I can't read you at all. I don't know how you're interpreting my answer, but i'm saying that I can't find anything you've done that's scummy or questionable.

While I can't speak for Jim, I'm thinking he interpreted the "he's playing perfectly" as a positive comment meant to highlight how he's being a good, solid town player.  You said something praising him instead of a more neutral "he's playing in a way that's totally unreadable", which you covered for when he pressed the point.

I'm thinking it's the case because that's how I interpreted your answer, and I'm guessing you did too (since you corrected that slip as soon as he accused you of buddying, then feigned ignorance).

[Jim Groovester]

It's legit, I can't read you at all. I don't know how you're interpreting my answer, but i'm saying that I can't find anything you've done that's scummy or questionable.

McArathos has it right.

It's one thing to say you can't get a read out of me. It's another to say I'm playing perfectly.

Trying to curry a little favor with the big bad Groovester, lest he sink his teeth into you?

[IronyOwl]

It doesn't benefit town, ever. It benefits me as a player when I have the chance to be mafia. Specific to this game, I doubt my lack of a specific playstyle will do anything, at all. I felt saying that would be a boring answer.

So, you're changing your story. First you say it was "in general," now you're saying the real answer was boring so you swapped it out with a hypothetical "if I was scum" scenario without mentioning it.

Right.

Irony, You say there's no room to mess up. Are you worried that i'd get hammered because of your first vote?

Not immediately, but if I vote you and then two other people do the same, it's a bit late for me to say "Wait, not ready yet." Better to just wait until I'm ready.

Are you saying you're looking for approval from everyone before you vote?

No, I want everyone's opinions for scumhunting purposes.

If you're looking for getting reads and opinions from everyone, then why are you only questioning Shark?

Partially because I've wanted to see everyone do stuff on their own, not just in response to me, but you're right. I also thought I had a question out to somebody, but apparently not.


Jim, what's the scummiest thing Shark's done this game, in your opinion?

McArathos, do you suspect Jim at all? You implied you did a bit back, then just sort of dropped it.

Also, turns out I did have something out:

Less likely, perhaps.  Scum players, even bad ones, are always wary of being caught doing something scummy.  Still, I think it's quite likely they'll do it.  It's dangerous, but that doesn't mean any given scum player won't fuck it up when they do.  If a scum player honestly believes they have a slam dunk of a case when they hammer, they may believe they've just ensured they won't be hit by the vengekill.  It doesn't mean they're right, of course.

This seems contradictory. Are scum less likely to hammer, or are they probably going to hammer?

Native, thought experiment time. Assuming each member of the game is scum, who would you most expect their partner to be?

[NativeForeigner]

I'm going to assume you don't mean everybody's scum at once. So I'll answer with a list, the first name mentioned is the hypothetical godfather and the second is who I would expect their partner based on in-game interactions so far.

You: I'm not entirely sure. You haven't been interacting a lot with Jim, so that's probably who I would guess. Your interactions with everyone else have been pretty basic.

Jim: My first guess would actually be Shark. I wouldn't put it past Jim to bus a newbie like scum to make himself look even better, and he probably has the skill to pull it off smoothly. Alternatively, I would say Urist. Urist poked Jim just a little bit earlier, but Jim quickly shut him down, which could be taken as distancing.

Urist: Jim, kinda for the reverse of above. In this scenario, Jim told Urist to do some distancing and that's what went down, but being a relavtively new player, Urist wasn't able to carry it very far.

Shark: It's kind of hard for me to see Shark in a godfather position right now (I would assume that any one of us as his partner would have tried our hardest to avoid the mistakes he's made), but if he was, I would say his partner would probably be Urist, I dunno. He's not asking Shark a lot of questions, but he is pointing out tells.

Now, Irony, a couple questions.

What did you hope to get out of that question? It seems like a lot of wine could come from it.

Going back to something I said earlier, why are you asking Jim about what he thinks the scummiest thing Shark has done? To me, that really looks like you're just looking for approval or just making sure someone will be behind you before you cast your vote. It's one thing to be cautious, but it's another thing to say someone is probably scum and then wait until you hear what everyone else thinks about him before you actually vote him. You could spend that time hunting him yourself rather than waiting for us to do it for you.

Urist: You're STILL not asking any questions. It sounds to me like you have something to go off of now, but for whatever reason, you're not going through with it, instead you just point out a few things about Shark that you don't like and then do nothing about it. I'd like to know why. Are you afraid of slipping up? Afraid that if you start asking questions you won't be able to follow through?

Jim: It looks to me like you've been hanging kind of low, which is a contrast to your usual play. Is it because you're unfamiliar with the gametype?

I think the game has been going on long enough for a good initial read on everybody, what are your thoughts on everyone? Who do you suspect most and why?

Shark: I see a buddying and a lot of parroting, I don't like that, but I can't tell if it's just you being newbtown or if you're actually scum. Do you plan on asking any original questions soon? I've seen maybe one or two good original questions come from you. It's like you're not even trying to scumhunt. Who do you suspect and why aren't you doing anything about it?

[NativeForeigner]

EBWODP:

Urist and Irony: I also want to know who you suspect other than Shark.

[IronyOwl]

I'm going to assume you don't mean everybody's scum at once. So I'll answer with a list, the first name mentioned is the hypothetical godfather and the second is who I would expect their partner based on in-game interactions so far.

Why'd you assume the subject is the godfather and your pick is the mafioso? Would your answers change a lot if that were reversed?

Your interactions with everyone else have been pretty basic.

What do you make of that?

What did you hope to get out of that question? It seems like a lot of wine could come from it.

Seeing what you thought of everyone, and how you were thinking in general.

Going back to something I said earlier, why are you asking Jim about what he thinks the scummiest thing Shark has done?

To see how he's thinking. He's been calling out Shark's scumtells, but not much else in way of opinions.

To me, that really looks like you're just looking for approval or just making sure someone will be behind you before you cast your vote. It's one thing to be cautious, but it's another thing to say someone is probably scum and then wait until you hear what everyone else thinks about him before you actually vote him. You could spend that time hunting him yourself rather than waiting for us to do it for you.

If I back off of Shark without a good reason, this'll probably be relevant. Otherwise, I'm not sure why it matters. As for scumhunting him, I'm more concerned about everyone else at the moment, as I'm fairly happy with my current read on him.

Urist and Irony: I also want to know who you suspect other than Shark.

McArathos is probably in the lead, as he's been parroting me and otherwise not doing a whole lot. I think there was some other vague reason I suspected him, but I don't remember what.

[NativeForeigner]

IO: In the interest of now quoting everything, I'll reply in order.

Probably because the godfather sounds authoritative or leaderishy and thus where to start. I don't think my answers would change much if at all in the reverse.

I'm not sure what to make of it, it's neither excessively town nor is it excessively scummy.

Fair enough.

It still looks like approval seeking to me.

And what is your current read of him?

Noted.

[IronyOwl]

It still looks like approval seeking to me.

Well, I'm not sure how else to ask about it.

And what is your current read of him?

He's obviously nervous now, which isn't necessarily a scumtell but is leaning that way. More importantly, I just don't see how his answer shenanigans could be anything but a scumslip. He seems like a decent/non-flaily player otherwise, so I don't think it likely that he misspoke really badly or anything like that.

[Shark]

It still looks like approval seeking to me.

Well, I'm not sure how else to ask about it.

And what is your current read of him?

He's obviously nervous now, which isn't necessarily a scumtell but is leaning that way. More importantly, I just don't see how his answer shenanigans could be anything but a scumslip. He seems like a decent/non-flaily player otherwise, so I don't think it likely that he misspoke really badly or anything like that.

I don't care if you suspect me, but you're being so scared about it. You're justifying not voting me, and I assume i'm your your top target. Do you really not want attention on you? If I got hammered, no one would look at the first voter. Do you just not want to be associated with anything that could put suspicion on you? Why are you not ready?

Irony, for the moment. You seem paralyzed, and you won't move forward. I'll unvote if you have a good reason to have been stalling this long.

Also, the reason for my misspeak is that this is my 2nd mafia game on a fourm, ever. I'm just learning quickly.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim, what's the scummiest thing Shark's done this game, in your opinion?

Mostly the buddying thing.

But really, I just want to find something to pick at people in the hopes that it will eventually turn up reads. I can't say I really suspect Shark for that (yet) but as far as I see it it's the most suspicious thing he's done so far.

Jim: It looks to me like you've been hanging kind of low, which is a contrast to your usual play. Is it because you're unfamiliar with the gametype?

I'll admit to being less vocal than usual, but only to a certain extent. If you expect viciousness out of me, that's because in most games I can find something to be vicious about. This game... not so much. I don't think the gametype has anything to do with it, except perhaps the truncated format and the need to get tells out of people during Day 1, and how difficult this is proving to be.

I think the game has been going on long enough for a good initial read on everybody, what are your thoughts on everyone? Who do you suspect most and why?

IronyOwl: IronyOwl is being IronyOwl. I can't read him ever. His hesitation about Shark unnerves me.
Shark: He's playing weird. The buddying bugs me somewhat. Also how he didn't answer my question about it.
Urist_McArathos: No strong opinion either way. I'm not catching his scum meta in this game, even though there are instances I could superficially catch him on.
NativeForeginer: You seem towner than everyone else in the game.

Shark,

It's legit, I can't read you at all. I don't know how you're interpreting my answer, but i'm saying that I can't find anything you've done that's scummy or questionable.

McArathos has it right.

It's one thing to say you can't get a read out of me. It's another to say I'm playing perfectly.

Trying to curry a little favor with the big bad Groovester, lest he sink his teeth into you?

[Urist_McArathos]

IronyOwl If you're referring to the post here:

There's nothing suspicious about it; Town care about finding scum, not looking town.  Scum (at least scum like you) care about finding town players that look scummy, and hunting them into oblivion; also not looking town.

I meant scum who play like Jim does when he is scum.  I didn't mean to imply he was, as I had (and still have) nothing to either give that impression nor support it.  If you're not referring to that post, I'm not sure where I implied it, so you'd have to remind me.  I don't recall implying it this whole game.

In answer to your question, of course I suspect Jim.  I suspect everyone; it's just a question of degree.  I have no confirmed townies to NOT suspect, so any of you could be the scum team.  I don't suspect Jim very much (yet), and not the most of everyone here.

Native: First off, I asked Shark questions in my silly post AFTER you asked if I was going to ask more.  Two of them; so, to say I'm STILL not isn't true.  I'm not asking as many as you want me to?  That's another matter, but I stand by my statement that there's only so much to go by this far in.  You don't like that one of them was prodding him to expound on his reply to IronyOwl, but I felt his answer was incomplete and I wanted more.  As for what I was going to go on, I wanted to see how Shark reacted to my last post.

Shark: I see you had no response to my post.  I had some pretty serious allegations in there, and they weren't jokes.

To summarize: parroting, inconsistent behavior, implying slanderous things about my town play, buddying, and both backpedaling AND feigning ignorance when called on buddying.

That's a healthy list, but here's some more:

I don't care if you suspect me, but you're being so scared about it. You're justifying not voting me, and I assume i'm your your top target. Do you really not want attention on you? If I got hammered, no one would look at the first voter. Do you just not want to be associated with anything that could put suspicion on you? Why are you not ready?

Irony, for the moment. You seem paralyzed, and you won't move forward. I'll unvote if you have a good reason to have been stalling this long.

First off, you're not Irony's top suspect, I am.  As clearly stated here:

Urist and Irony: I also want to know who you suspect other than Shark.

McArathos is probably in the lead, as he's been parroting me and otherwise not doing a whole lot. I think there was some other vague reason I suspected him, but I don't remember what.

So yeah, if you're going to hassle IronyOwl for not voting his top scumpick, you SHOULD be pressuring him to vote me.  Also, saying no one would look at the first voter on a lynch is stupid; there are three voters, and if you REALLY think none of them will be suspected, you're fooling yourself.  Hell, let's say Irony voted on you first and you DID get mislynched.  You'd certainly notice it, since you were the one deflecting his attacks before anyone's.  That holds no substance

At this point, I'm thinking you ignored my post (and Jim's follow-up confirmed my read of his buddying accusation) since you couldn't answer for your scummy behavior, and instead decided to kick up some bullshit on IronyOwl to get yourself out of the spotlight and shift suspicion, all the while LOOKING like you were just scumhunting.

Shark

[Jim Groovester]

IronyOwl, why were you busy dancing around voting for Shark again?

[IronyOwl]

Do you really not want attention on you? If I got hammered, no one would look at the first voter.

This is contradictory. If the first vote is totally safe, why would I avoid putting it on there to avoid attention?

Also, the reason for my misspeak is that this is my 2nd mafia game on a fourm, ever. I'm just learning quickly.

This doesn't explain anything.

I meant scum who play like Jim does when he is scum.  I didn't mean to imply he was, as I had (and still have) nothing to either give that impression nor support it.  If you're not referring to that post, I'm not sure where I implied it, so you'd have to remind me.  I don't recall implying it this whole game.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

First off, you're not Irony's top suspect, I am.  As clearly stated here:

I meant as far as other suspects went. Shark is indeed my top scumpick.

Also, you missed my question about scum hammering or not hammering again.

IronyOwl, why were you busy dancing around voting for Shark again?

I wasn't ready for the day to end yet. I guess I'm satisfied now, though.

Shark.

On a related note, does it bother you that you don't have any solid suspicions this far in? Does it bother you that I have such a confident suspicion this early?