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[Kilroy the Grand]

You all criticise the game but we all bought it right? Everybody (including this forum) loved this game when it was out. I was the only individual who criticised it here and you can't belive how much I was flamed for it. I criticised the level scaling, dumbed down gameplay, boring quests, boring NPCs, inefficent-but-shiny UI and everybody thought all this things weren't that bad and actually an improvment. Then people started criticising Morrowind. When someone praises a so-called crappy game we all hate him and when someone criticises a so-called great game we all hate him again. Hell, I even showed Bethesda's lies about this game and Oblivion. People just kept insulting me.

In the end, copies sold = customer satisfaction

We will get more games like this. Yeah, first hours of the game is magical and that's reflected by the scores given by video game reviewers.

Skyrim WAS fun for about the first 20 hours... then it started to get "Meh" I ran out of interesting things to do. I didn't have the same problem with morrowind, I had fun searching every nook and cranny because I KNEW there was something cool hiding there.

Also strippers. Morrowind had strippers which makes it better on that regard.

[bombzero]

but why did people expect way too much out of the game? i believe Bethesda did a hell of a lot to hype up dragons... only to fall short.

Skyrim WAS fun for about the first 20 hours... then it started to get "Meh" I ran out of interesting things to do. I didn't have the same problem with morrowind, I had fun searching every nook and cranny because I KNEW there was something cool hiding there.

Also strippers. Morrowind had strippers which makes it better on that regard.

true about time it stays interesting, also the morrowing note brings up something, Bethesda is getting more afraid of controversy. Morrowind had some disturbing stuff in it, Oblivion had some stuff that might make a child flinch, but i didn't see any of the 'effects of conflict' or 'evil acts' that were present in the last games. 

[Kilroy the Grand]

but why did people expect way too much out of the game? i believe Bethesda did a hell of a lot to hype up dragons... only to fall short.

Skyrim WAS fun for about the first 20 hours... then it started to get "Meh" I ran out of interesting things to do. I didn't have the same problem with morrowind, I had fun searching every nook and cranny because I KNEW there was something cool hiding there.

Also strippers. Morrowind had strippers which makes it better on that regard.

true about time it stays interesting, also the morrowing note brings up something, Bethesda is getting more afraid of controversy. Morrowind had some disturbing stuff in it, Oblivion had some stuff that might make a child flinch, but i didn't see any of the 'effects of conflict' or 'evil acts' that were present in the last games. 

Like the crazed cultists that ate their own tumors, and the giant golem powered by a dead gods heart?

[fqllve]

but why did people expect way too much out of the game? i believe Bethesda did a hell of a lot to hype up dragons... only to fall short.

That's what these guys do. It is their job to hype shit, it is your job not to believe them. Hell, I can think of 9/10 games that didn't live up to the hype, most recently Journey, and Skyrim is only a 6/10, 7/10 game at best and that's all it was ever gonna be.

[Kilroy the Grand]

but why did people expect way too much out of the game? i believe Bethesda did a hell of a lot to hype up dragons... only to fall short.

7/10 game at best and that's all it was ever gonna be.

It pained me when I discovered this for myself. Skyrim just feels so... generic.

[Virtz]

You mean like every other mission-based game ever made? I'm having trouble thinking of a single quest in a similar open world game that wasn't boring and meaningless. Does that mean that these games aren't fun? No, it means that quests are just an excuse to take you to another part of the world. If you want deep quests with substantial changes in gameplay you are playing the wrong kind of game.

How about the Fallout series? Like even Fallout 3 had better quest design in general than Skyrim (ignoring the worse writing), cause choices were more prominent and there were some skill applications. And even more so in New Vegas. Skyrim's definately got more quests than any of those games, but most of them are on par with something a random generator could churn out (and I ain't talking about those that actually are).

[Ultimuh]

but why did people expect way too much out of the game? i believe Bethesda did a hell of a lot to hype up dragons... only to fall short.

7/10 game at best and that's all it was ever gonna be.

It pained me when I discovered this for myself. Skyrim just feels so... generic.

I myself went back playing Fallout New Vegas, havent been doing any Skyrim since..
I am just waiting for the modders to start big projects.

[bombzero]

well thats my main point of confusion, fallout has rather dynamic quests and usually a interesting storyline that immerses you in the game.

i felt 0 immersion while playing skyrim, none, less than AC: brotherhood. fallout on the other hand i find myself getting in to, i WANT to do quests, in skyrim i would rather stand in one place spinning in circles looking at the ground, it would be more fun than the quests anyways.

fallout has quests that are interesting, usually mysterious in nature, and oftentimes take dedication, and work to complete.

[fqllve]

How about the Fallout series? Like even Fallout 3 had better quest design in general than Skyrim (ignoring the worse writing), cause choices were more prominent and there were some skill applications. And even more so in New Vegas. Skyrim's definately got more quests than any of those games, but most of them are on par with something a random generator could churn out (and I ain't talking about those that actually are).

Okay, I'll give you that Skyrim's quests are in general pretty shitty even when compared to the genre, but even in the Fallout games the majority of quests are filler and the skill applications oftentimes feel hollow. What really makes the quests compelling for me in the Fallout games is the writing, even in Fallout 3 the narrative was more competent than in Skyrim. It's nice to have multiple ways to approach a problem but there's generally something unfulfilling about the way it feels like you're just going down another predetermined route.

This probably sounds more negative than I intended it to, I just feel like mission-based gameplay has a long way to go.

[bombzero]

indeed it does, however its a bit odd considering theres several games with 'mission based' gameplay that have dynamic player choice options, and plenty of emergent gameplay. mostly these games are more often stealth based, but i dont see why the same principles couldn't be applies to a more action oriented game.

[Kilroy the Grand]

well thats my main point of confusion, fallout has rather dynamic quests and usually a interesting storyline that immerses you in the game.

i felt 0 immersion while playing skyrim, none, less than AC: brotherhood. fallout on the other hand i find myself getting in to, i WANT to do quests, in skyrim i would rather stand in one place spinning in circles looking at the ground, it would be more fun than the quests anyways.

fallout has quests that are interesting, usually mysterious in nature, and oftentimes take dedication, and work to complete.

Fallout also had a pretty good UI, when I played that game I could actually know what quest I was on, and what I was doing. Skyrim also had WORSE writing, Sure it had 70+ voice actors... that all said the same damn thing.

[bombzero]

well i think part of the issue is this, elder scrolls is set in generic fantasy land #1000000000 so Bethesda spends too much time worrying about breaking the mold and being ridiculed.

Fallout is set in an alternate timeline post-apocalyptic world, giving the developers near unlimited freedom.

[Virtz]

Fallout also had a pretty good UI, when I played that game I could actually know what quest I was on, and what I was doing. Skyrim also had WORSE writing, Sure it had 70+ voice actors... that all said the same damn thing.

While I don't think Skyrim has worse writing than Fallout 3, I do echo the thought of the wtf voice acting.

Why have all blacksmiths say the exact same phrase when you trade with them? Would writing alternative phrases for them really be that damn expensive? Is there some kinda discount for having a bunch of voice actors say the same thing? I don't understand what they were thinking. And from what I recall, they've been doing this since before Skyrim.

[Tarran]

Why have all blacksmiths say the exact same phrase when you trade with them? Would writing alternative phrases for them really be that damn expensive? Is there some kinda discount for having a bunch of voice actors say the same thing? I don't understand what they were thinking. And from what I recall, they've been doing this since before Skyrim.

Yeah, it's... just... weird as hell how much they say the same thing.

And before Skyrim, I'm pretty sure I remember there being plenty of people saying "I hope I can help!" and then smiling in Oblivion.

[Leatra]

Bethesda hyped this game too much. People expected too much. You can't blame the customers for complaining about Skyrim being an "average" game.

Skyrim has boring quests compared to pretty much every other game. I'm sick of this "go bring me my socks" kind of quests. Probably, Bethesda was like "Eh, it's too much work to make all these quests. Let's make some crappy misc. quests to increase the number of quests in this game" The idea of having radiant quests was probably based on this.

NPCs are boring because they don't feel alive. When you are walking around, a complete stranger may say things like "Hi there stranger! I have a daughter and I work as a blacksmith and I live over there. Just wanted to let you know!" Geez. Why the fuck are you telling me that? I have never ever seen you in my life. What if I'm a rapist or something? I'm not complaining about frendliness of NPCs. The agressive NPCs don't seem real to me too. They just get pissed at everyhing for no reason. It's like all NPCs have 4-5 personality types.

Attempt at dumbing down the gameplay, providing an easier game by level scaling and having a UI suited for consoles is just a greedy attempt at pulling in more customers. Bethesda used to try to make great games, not make money. When I look at the games I define as "great games" I see the devs developing the game with love for their work and not love for money. If you are doing something other than loving doing it, you are doing it wrong.