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[Rex_Nex]

But is it better or worse then Oblivion?

[Kilroy the Grand]

But is it better or worse then Oblivion?

I'd say Oblivion was better.

[Sordid]

I'd say Oblivion was better.

The only thing Oblivion is better than is genital warts.

[fqllve]

Bethesda hyped this game too much. People expected too much. You can't blame the customers for complaining about Skyrim being an "average" game.

I don't see many people complaining that Skyrim is an average game. Even you used quotes around average, which probably means you think it's subpar. Which leads me to believe you either haven't played many bad games or you have unreasonably high expectations, and I'm a person who doesn't believe there has ever been a 10/10 game ever.

What the situation looks like to me is that people expected an amazing game, got an okay one, and are calling it terrible.

What I don't think is that you can blame Bethesda for the video game hype machine as if they were the only ones who do it. We live in a culture of hype, movies, tv shows, video games, even books. It's not even just done by ad execs but by the fans themselves. How many times have you heard about this awesome amazing game from multiple sources only to find that it isn't what you were led to believe? That's how I felt about Bastion. It's a great game, but I probably would have enjoyed it more if I hadn't heard so many people rave about it.

Skyrim has boring quests compared to pretty much every other game. I'm sick of this "go bring me my socks" kind of quests. Probably, Bethesda was like "Eh, it's too much work to make all these quests. Let's make some crappy misc. quests to increase the number of quests in this game" The idea of having radiant quests was probably based on this.

Everyone is sick of fetch questing yet almost all these types of games have major amounts of them. It is a systemic problem, although Skyrim might be one of the worse offenders.

NPCs are boring because they don't feel alive. When you are walking around, a complete stranger may say things like "Hi there stranger! I have a daughter and I work as a blacksmith and I live over there. Just wanted to let you know!" Geez. Why the fuck are you telling me that? I have never ever seen you in my life. What if I'm a rapist or something? I'm not complaining about frendliness of NPCs. The agressive NPCs don't seem real to me too. They just get pissed at everyhing for no reason. It's like all NPCs have 4-5 personality types.

It's a Bethesda game. Every one of them has been full of bland-ass NPCs. I can't even remember a single character's name from Fallout 3 (except Liam Neesondad) and I beat that game twice, and a surprising number of people have Jiub as a favorite character from Morrowind. Basically all the NPCs suck except the daedra.

If you are doing something other than loving doing it, you are doing it wrong.

This, I agree with completely. Although I believe the people at Bethsoft do genuinely love doing what they do and do try to make great games. It's just that they lack the imagination to try to make something truly great and instead try to refine a formula that seems to make people happy. It's not just Bethesda that's like that.

But is it better or worse then Oblivion?

I'd say Oblivion was better.

Really? Oblivion's dungeons were almost as linear with even less personality, the HP bloat was insane at high levels even on 0% difficulty, and the world was even more bland. Plus, you couldn't catch bees and butterflies. Now Shivering Isles, on the other hand.

[Leatra]

Bethesda hyped this game too much. People expected too much. You can't blame the customers for complaining about Skyrim being an "average" game.

What the situation looks like to me is that people expected an amazing game, got an okay one, and are calling it terrible.

I still think it's the result of overhyping the game. They built too much hype about dragons for example.

I think Bethesda as a money-hungry company because of the way how they created Skyrim. They wanted to get the console players and even created the game from the console and failed to port it to PC properly. They did lots of things to attract the "casual" gamers. Hand-holding quest system, dumbed down gameplay, etc. I guess that's what the majority wants so there is no point in arguing about this.

But is it better or worse then Oblivion?

I think I liked Oblivion more but I don't know why. I just don't get the same feeling with Skyrim.

[NobodyPro]

Does this mean that all the Generico^tm brand countries are gone? Do they have to be interesting in the next game or are we going to see more Cyrodiil style retcons?

[Sordid]

Everyone is sick of fetch questing yet almost all these types of games have major amounts of them. It is a systemic problem, although Skyrim might be one of the worse offenders.

Well it's because there are only really three things you can do in most RPGs - kill things, talk to people, and pick up and carry items. So every quest has to to be based on these activities.

I think I liked Morrowind's main quest much more than Oblivion's and Skyrim's because its quests were based more on the talking and less on the fetching.

[Kilroy the Grand]

I also liked the fact that your character wasn't a magical unique snowflake. About halfway through the main quest you learn that you are just the last in a long line of chumps to be tricked. The quests were better too, you actually needed to investigate and not mindlessly go to point A to B.

[Karnewarrior]

I also liked the fact that your character wasn't a magical unique snowflake. About halfway through the main quest you learn that you are just the last in a long line of chumps to be tricked. The quests were better too, you actually needed to investigate and not mindlessly go to point A to B.

Being the unchosen one is a hell of a lot of fun indeed.

But Skyrim was rather decent in it's own way. I've never had a Bethesda game I didn't like playing.

[Bdthemag]

Skyrim wasn't really bad, in my opinion it was just bad compared to the expectations Bethesda set. This seems to be true for most Bethesda games nowadays. Like how there were going to be things like vehicles in fallout new vegas...

[Sordid]

Also the fact that everything was there from the start, the Cavern of the Incarnate, Kagrenac's Tools, everything. You could even break into Vivec's chamber if your lockpicking skill was high enough. He'd just tell you to piss off, of course, but you could do it. If Morrowind was made today it'd just tell you that "this door requires a specific key" or some shit like that. You couldn't tell what was quest-related and what wasn't and as a result the whole experience was far more immersive and organic. In Skyrim you know that a door that can't be opened has something quest-related beyond it, you know that an NPC that just has one or two lines but doesn't actually have its own dialog menu is there basically just for show. That to me is kinda sad. Not as bad as actually putting exclamation marks over people's heads, but not that far off either.

[Kilroy the Grand]

You couldn't tell what was quest-related and what wasn't and as a result the whole experience was far more immersive and organic.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Huh, a rusty dagger? *throws it into a lava flow 5 minutes later*

"FOOLISH MORTAL, It is I mehrunes Dagon! Retrieve my razor!"

[Putnam]

Does this mean that all the Generico^tm brand countries are gone? Do they have to be interesting in the next game or are we going to see more Cyrodiil style retcons?

They could make up some excuse about Daggerfall's procedural generation and have the next game take place in Hammerfell or High Rock, both of which could be made pretty easily into generic fantasy worlds.

[Leatra]

Everyone is sick of fetch questing yet almost all these types of games have major amounts of them. It is a systemic problem, although Skyrim might be one of the worse offenders.

Well it's because there are only really three things you can do in most RPGs - kill things, talk to people, and pick up and carry items. So every quest has to to be based on these activities.

I think I liked Morrowind's main quest much more than Oblivion's and Skyrim's because its quests were based more on the talking and less on the fetching.

Yeah, game succesfully gave you an excuse to fetch and kill stuff and sometimes you didn't even think it as of a fetch quest. Skyrim has too many boring "misc." quests.

[forsaken1111]

Yeah.. like when I was asked to get the Helm of Winterhold.

Jarl: "Yes, you must retrieve the helm!"

Me: "Uh okay... where is it?"

-notices quest marker-

-follow follow the magic arrow-

-ends up at a camp in the middle of nowhere with a bosmer sitting by a fire. Quest marker points to a chest-

Me: "Uh hi, do you have a helmet?"

Bosmer: "..."

(Literally the bosmer sat there and had no dialogue options.)

-picks lock, takes helm from chest...-

-returns to jarl, quest complete-

Jarl: "You have done us a great service! You will be made a hero of the land!"

Me: "Okay... all I did was steal from a mute and slightly stupid bosmer but sure."