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[Shootandrun]

None of the ligorian side is clean enough to throw stones about metagaming

I am hurt.

[CyberGenesis]

My point is simple: Actions have consequences. Laythe can be as crazy as she wants - but monarchs were poisoned and replaced for less. Everyone wants every action they chose to make to not have side effects. Attacking during a peaceful negotiation is like shooting the swiss diplomat - you don't do it. If you do, you're a complete jackass and no one likes you.

Provided a 'win' for Ligoria: All diplomatic relations for the next 2-3 seasons will suffer from a -1 to a -3 simply due to the beliefs of the nations involved in those talks and their relations with Ligoria.

A 'loss' for Ligoria: Suffering at the hands of the DE will actually give a bonus - showing the rest of the Coast that the DE is a threat and that no 1 nation can hold them back alone.


Oh, and FYI Tari: Tactics are rolled d6, NOT RtD - there is no crit fail

I am hurt.

No one had tactical regiments until -after- the battle of Mileth. While minor, and completely ignored, its still the principle of the matter. There are been a rather large number of actions that have only been made due to OOC discussions. The only real OOC info that no one has been acting on is Tala and Hugo - but then again...What was the true intent of filtering mail? To catch a spy with no overt signs in any rolls there was one? (just a point leone, get over it)

In all honesty: This was never meant to go to battle - i had run the math as soon as tari picked his regiments to attack with. It was never winnable outright. Without Mileth it would have been doable, but painful. It was a diplomatic situation thats been pushed farther and farther in Terenos' favor with every action made.

[NUKE9.13]

You know what?

I think this is fun. I think this is just a game, and one where the 'goal' is an interesting story, rather than personal success.
And I think that whilst this chaos is pretty chaotic and some people have been ridiculously crazy, it still makes for an interesting story, or it will, once we emerge from the chaos and can say for sure what has happened at the siege of mileth.

Now.
The soldiers know about AF getting stabbed. Deal with it.
Terenos can continue to control the DE invasion, inheritance rules be damned, until such a time as he chooses to give it up.
The marshal has the authority to override the queen's orders, at the cost of the Queen's authority being severely damaged. If he says 'no', the army listens.
Unless a member of that army chooses to make a fuss, like Sheb has done. His actions have been valid. You can complain about how silly they are, but hypocrisy bores me.
The Dragon Empire is marching on the Ligorians as we speak. You have a short while to deal with Sheb's attempted revolt.
The Queen can end the revolt immediately by just doing what she just did.
The battle will happen soon. Terenos has given his orders, Nikephoros his. Pasha will not be in the battle, but the DE does not know this so they don't get to change their orders. Ligoria will be defending their earthworks, giving a slight bonus to defence.

These are the facts of the matter.
CG- you want to roll the battle, or should I do it? It'll be a round-by-round affair, right?

[Terenos]

Oh. And one addition to my orders.

All the wealth of Mileth that was collected. Those 27 ducats?

Return half, with instructions to the citizenry that if Ligoria wins, to keep the wealth from them. If the DE wins, we wont ask for it back. Destroy the rest.

[Taricus]

Hang on, the players themselves have something to say:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1: +2 Tactics max per unit,
2: Use of a d20 for tactics rolls
3: No random maluses for no reason,
4: Tactician only grants a +1,
5: Besieged units cannot execute field manouvers (flanking, encircling, etc.), However can use tactics designed for siege defense
6: Common sense trumps maths if if circumstances are clear,
7: A cap on cumulative tactical rolls is required,
8: Leaderless soldiers take a penalty to tactics
9: Players can call a vote when there's a problem with the rules that need fixing soon and it's not clear who's right
10: Transparent Dice rolls
11: NO retcons

Signed:
Ardas
Dwarmin
Filiusenox
Leone313
Micelus
SeriousConcentrate
Shootandrun
Taricus

Simply put, we're pissed off over some of the GM's behavior over the last few days. We may not know the causes, but I believe that is no excuse for such behaviour.

[Terenos]

I call denial. That works entirely 100% in your favor, and you want it here, now, in this battle where you've already murdered my character to bullshit and metagaming?

[Shootandrun]

Micelus, Filiusenox agree, and they're completely neutral about this whole thing. Leone is not involved in the battle, and he agrees with us. Dwarmin is kindof in your team, and he's on our side.

Hell. I don't mind loosing the battle and seeing Kathos dying. I have a backup character ready. But not that way. Think that these changes could really improve a lot of broken things in the game.

[filiusenox]

Hang on, the players themselves have something to say:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1: +2 Tactics max per unit,
2: Use of a d20 for tactics rolls
3: No random maluses for no reason,
4: Tactician only grants a +1,
5: Besieged units cannot execute field manouvers (flanking, encircling, etc.), However can use tactics designed for siege defense
6: Common sense trumps maths if if circumstances are clear,
7: A cap on cumulative tactical rolls is required,
8: Leaderless soldiers take a penalty to tactics
9: Players can call a vote when there's a problem with the rules that need fixing soon and it's not clear who's right
10: Transparent Dice rolls
11: NO retcons

Signed:
Ardas
Dwarmin
Filiusenox
Leone313
Micelus
SeriousConcentrate
Shootandrun
Taricus

Simply put, we're pissed off over some of the GM's behavior over the last few days. We may not know the causes, but I believe that is no excuse for such behaviour.

I agree with this, and i'm technically a neutral party. Considering i'll get curbstomped either way.

[micelus]

Yeah, um, I may want to destroy/annex/dominate Ligoria, but having nearly all of their PC's die seem a bit extreme...Oh I know that Taric can be unfair at times and Fili can be idiotic, but I support the above...And I didn't even get a hand in making these "rules". And I'm screwed either way, so it doesn't really matter to me who wins.

And Terenos, well not completely. He has to deal with all the trouble AFTER this...Laythe isn't going to have her head for too long...

[thatkid]

I think that if your petition is enacted, it should not be done until after this battle.

By saying this, I mean that I agree with Terenos. Far too many of the signers are on the opposing side, and it benefits that opposing side far too much. It's opportunistic, is what I'm saying.

Just my two cents.

[micelus]

Perhaps, perhaps. Maybe it should apply immediately after? But then we'll lose 5 PCs...Thats not very good. Oh I can see Laythe and Niko and even Kathos biting the dust, but the rest? Not really.

[leone313]

I'm regenting the country, that means if every Ligorian PC dies in that battle, Avitus gets to be the damn King... And yet the way this battle has been handled so far is too biased.

[Shootandrun]

The battle will not be completely won/lost for any side. The DE will still be able to do tactical 'things', and there is enough chaos in the camp that the battle might be lost before it begins because someone wants to start a rebellion.

[Terenos]

Theres no guarantee anyone will die in the battle. Hell they actually have PC protection (note how many PC's have died in YAK and YAK II so far). So they'll be fine.

That precious toy army of theirs? Aint gonna be so fine.

This proposal removes my ability to use Split Forces, which is the entire method I had of evening the playing field. How bout that. A proposal that shanks my ability to defend itself. You've already killed my character, may as well go for every unfair advantage you can steal.

[Dwarmin]

Me? I just *want* the game to continue-even if I have to die in this battle-but with this many players unhappy, it cannot do so. That is why I support the petition.

And yes, I'm not the best supporter of the Dragon Empire in this case...

@Micelus: Tala might survive if she gets words of who she is to someone in high enough rank to know her codename. That's her saving grace.