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[Simmura McCrea]

barely any pushing power

With a Lina, a Beastmaster, a Clockwerk and a Necrolyte? Lina can nuke down a creepwave solo in two spells, assuming she lands the stun right. BM can take most of the health off and CW and Necrolyte can finish it off. CW can also apply a little push to any lane on the map, from anywhere he feels like it.

[umiman]

Korbac:

Necro is a carry the same way Death Prophet is a carry. They aren't replacements for someone like Phantom Lancer or Faceless Void but they should never be used as supports. So yeah, they aren't "carry" carries but at the same time they can win teamfights just by virtue of being higher level than the enemy. Not sure what you'd call them.

Simmura:

I was actually referring more to how we couldn't kill towers. We could kill creepwaves just fine yeah but our dps was so pathetic that without creeps we did almost no damage to towers. In fact, after trying to push the first two towers we kinda gave up autoattacking the towers ourselves and just sat behind towers as our group of 5 letting the creeps kill the towers instead. Basically imagine a group of 5 Axes and you get the idea.

[Korbac]

Level Carries?



I think I know what you mean, they are prime forms of DPS in a fight, but rely on skills rather than right clicks?

[umiman]

Not really that. They kinda just run around and the enemy can't do jack shit about it until they die after a good long while. Well, they can try, but they'll realize they can't do anything and then subsequently try to run away.

Dark Seer is also like this.

The common theme between all of them is that if they get a good level advantage, not only will you never kill them... but they'll win teamfights just by being there and running around. Maybe pressing a few buttons if they want, but mostly just by being there.

I guess I can try to describe it in dialogue text for the recipient when he dies to someone like Necro compared to say... Antimage.

Dying to Antimage:
1. Do de doo...
2. Oh god it's antimage!
3. Fuck fuck fuck fuck
4. Dead

Dying to Necrolyte:
1. Look, Necro is pushing top solo! Get him!
2. Yeah let's jump him rarararghghgh!
3. He's so close to death! Chase him!
4. Holy cow that goddamn heal is so annoying!
5. Umm...
6. Uh oh...
7. Shit I'm going to die run away!
8. ...
9. ...
10. Seriously?
11. Goddammit...
12. ...
13. ...
14. ...
15. ...
16. ...
17. Die

^ That kind of dialogue is the exact same you would get for Death Prophet and Dark Seer. Well, maybe except the heal part.

[Tyg13]

I think Necrolyte is classified as a semi-carry. At least, that's what I've heard Purge and other casters call him. He's not quite a carry because he doesn't really put out a crazy amount of damage, but he scales well enough with levels that he can significantly dominate his opponent with a good enough level advantage, which is obviously why he usually goes solo. I think he fulfills a similar role to say Zeus or Rubick. Not a support because they definitely need the gold and levels, but not capable of completely stomping the enemy team like Void or Mortred.

[ranter]

I disagree with death prophet. I dare you try to 1V1 her with her ult maxed. It takes for her three seconds to kill you if you are close to her.

[Alg]

You call them just carries, or spell carries if you want to differenciate them from heroes like SF or Juggernaut. Faceless Void and Phantom Lancer are hard carries. Back in 6.59d, spell carries were actually basically the only carries still around, DPS carries were inexistant in competitive play (also known as the "bloodstone era").

Also Beastmaster is a scary, scary pusher with the right items. I played a game as a Beastmaster with Necro 3, Vlad and Drum yesterday, towers, raxes and heroes melted in a matter of seconds.

[umiman]

Let's have another Dota 2 discussion about something completely pointless but fun to think about anyway.

Once in awhile I watch Merlini's (an old DotA veteran who now plays just to stream, doesn't want to join any teams) stream and there's a very common complaint that comes up against him. People accuse him of constantly rigging games because all he does is 5-man queue with other pros that he knows. The so-called "Merlini & friends" isn't unbeatable by any means though, and you will often enough see them lose. Though more often than not they will win. I believe his winrate is 70%.

This is what's interesting. Do you guys think it's a legitimate complaint? Suppose you came across Merlini and you knew for a fact that his entire team was composed of all pros and they were all voicechatting, would you consider it unfair? And suppose you had to face him about once a day because your player pool at that level was so small.



Edit: I bring this up because I was talking to Ranter about how I once got flooded with friend requests after beating Drayskll (can't remember his name again) or something and he told me how Drayskll was an actual pro. So I was wondering if I would have to come up against the doom stack at some point. Couldn't decide if it would actually be unfair or not.

[crazysheep]

That's about as unfair as pubstomping.

[Frumple]

That's about as unfair as pubstomping.

Bit less, I'd think. If at all. Dunnit pubstomping usually involve troll alts or whatever? This case, they're high level players going against other high level players. Pre-made actually communicating should be kinda'... well, normal, right?

[crazysheep]

Pubstomping is pretty much when you queue with a team in normal matchmaking, which sounds like what's going on.

[lemon10]

All my games of DOTA were fun tonight. There were no extreme feeders on any of my teams, nearly everyone on my teams in each game were nice and constructive (not a single person got more then mildly annoyed, and there wasn't any swearing at all) and I won all but one of the games.
And even in the game that I lost people were friendly and it was a close game. It would have been nice to win it, but it was about a good a loss as you can get.

Gotta say, its great fun turning a match around from losing to winning by virtue of playing a great support (Lion WTF zapping people and backing my allies up and slowing down enemies, Wisp teleporting around the map with allies turning 2v3's into 4v3's and killing them off and saving your allies and dropping massive heals with meckanism (and stopping a BD'ing Natures Prophet at the very last second while your team races to destroy their ancient) , somehow getting fed as crystal maiden and just owning everyone with my ulti and giving my allies mad mana regen (including getting a double kill at level 7 on my own vs two full health enemy heroes in a single engagment)).

EDIT: After thinking a bit there was a match today where I randomed Ursa and we had a terrible team comp (and they had a good comp with supports and such) and they slaughtered us and killed me in 2 seconds flat everytime I targeted somebody, but on average the matches today were all pretty awesome.

[Alg]

Edit: I bring this up because I was talking to Ranter about how I once got flooded with friend requests after beating Drayskll (can't remember his name again) or something and he told me how Drayskll was an actual pro. So I was wondering if I would have to come up against the doom stack at some point. Couldn't decide if it would actually be unfair or not.

Draskyll is a caster actually, which used to be a semi-pro HoN player IIRC. He's pretty good, but not really pro level these days (but Merlini isn't that good either actually). On the stacking thing, it's kinda lame. Not really the stacking, playing with friend is pretty normal, but even in a doomstack he plays serious like his life depends on winning that pub game. Other popular streamers like Dendi or Singsing just play for fun and go for ridiculous builds and strats but Merlini is usually tryhard to the max. That part of his thing, he is an "educational" streamer compared to more entertaining ones, but it isn't to everyone's taste.

To get back to draskyll, he is rarely is a real doomstack, he usually plays with viewers, other casters/community figures and such. I really like him actually, he seems an all-around nice guy, it's a shame he doesn't stream these days.

[ranter]

I think that doomstacking is not a problem since chances are that you'll get to fight another doomstack. It doesn't have to be a doomstack of other pros, guys like admiralbulldog were feared at high ranking MM before they actually joined a pro team. Or you could get to fight this guy with friends http://dotabuff.com/players/86736893
The thing is that they are not going to fight guys on the level of "Purge casts a pub 17", so the match will be at least a bit fair.

[umiman]

http://dotabuff.com/heroes/winning

Check out number 1.

Awwww yeaaaaah