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[Thexor]

And you have to put 4 points into Guise, which is a bit of a tough sell when his other two skills are Living Armour (aka "The Second Most OP Skill In The Game") and Leech Seed (free Mekansm and slow and damage). 

Still, it's situationally viable, especially in the later portions of the game. Might be useful for ganking AM, QoP, or other high-mobility heroes that would be able to escape after they see your smoke break.

[Kagus]

Aye, I'm certainly not advocating an early maxing out of Guise.  Just trying to come up with more ways Tree can be helpful later on in the game.

[umiman]

Don't forget his 100 damage at level 1 lol.

[mainiac]

I will tell people "okay, I'll make you invis but it only works while you stick to the trees.  Alright?  Ready for it?  You gotta stick to the trees.  Here it comes."

Guess what the very first thing they do is?

But it's good for selfcast.

[Thexor]

It's awesome for self-cast, agreed. 15 seconds of invis that lets you cast Leech Seed safely is still pretty useful. I saw one pro game with a 1-1-3 Treant making good use of the self invis. (I'm pretty sure he maxed Armour/Leech Seed before putting a second point in Guise, though.)


I do have to ask, though... is there any way to make the higher ranks of Guise useful? Level 1 gives you permanent invisibility (assuming you have the mana to recast it every 15 seconds). The higher levels, though, just give it a longer duration, shorter cooldown, and slightly lower mana cost - only useful if you're keeping multiple targets invisible at once. Maybe the break distance could be increased at higher levels? Or maybe level 4 would let Treant attack while remaining invis (that'd be ridiculously OP at level 1, but possibly fair at level 8-9 if you max it after Armour)?

[Alkhemia]

Guise + Dagon is pretty fun since you can use item when you self cast it 

[umiman]

You're probably better off just leveling stats instead of maxing out guise. Most of the time the only person who will use guise is you anyway since the benefits are so miniscule for everyone else.

Don't forget the really long fade time, the lack of invis casting for allies, etc. It's kind of a derpy skill.

[Thexor]

To be fair, invis casting for allies would be OP as heck. Imagine Zeus or DP abusing invis casting. 

There definitely needs to be some reason to level Guise beyond level 1. Maybe let Treant attack from invis at higher ranks? Or increase the break distance? Or shorten the fade time, or increase the move speed bonus... that said, imagine how OP Treant would be, with super-OP Living Armour and an awesome, team-targeted invisibility spell?

[umiman]

He used to have permanent wards hehe.

[mainiac]

Guise doesn't need a buff.  It's already great.  You just need allies who learn not to run away from trees.  It works as an engage and as an ally escape or an ally engage, which is great for buffing up other players.

The derp lies between your allies chair and computer.

[Alkhemia]

Yes less buff tree more he completely needs it. /sarcasm 
You must be icefrog 

[umiman]

Has anyone here been muted by the system yet? Saw a thread on Reddit asking about people who have never been muted or put in LPQ and most of the people I know have never been in either.

In fact, I rather enjoy Dota with these measures on since as far as I'm concerned, the only people who get in them are those who deserve it. Then you just get varying measures of rationalizations by the guys being punished. It's hilarious.

My favorite series of rationalizations comes from this guy. It's hilarious how oblivious some people are about themselves.

[Alkhemia]

Nope never been muted or low priority I have got people muted though.

[Thexor]

Never been muted, or shoved into low priority. I also use voice chat pretty much constantly. I may have played with muted people, but it was never obvious (I haven't played with someone that had [MUTED] in their name, and a lot of people down in my tier are pretty quiet anyways).

The key is simple: don't be a jerk. Unfortunately, some people legitimately don't understand what 'being a jerk' means - they think they're being nice and friendly, while in reality they're grating and obnoxious. These are the people that get muted, then complain on forums, since from their perspective they weren't doing anything wrong.

[umiman]

The key is simple: don't be a jerk. Unfortunately, some people legitimately don't understand what 'being a jerk' means - they think they're being nice and friendly, while in reality they're grating and obnoxious. These are the people that get muted, then complain on forums, since from their perspective they weren't doing anything wrong.

This pretty much sums up my complaints with people who like to talk in game.

Most of the time it's some annoying imbecile just going on and on and on and on about ridiculous things. He thinks he's helping so much and that he's being a leader when all that's happening is that people just tolerate him at best. You know the guy:

Mr. "no I can't go mid I need to go bot so veno should go mid and then come gank this lane. make sure to buy a bottle and a courier veno also skill your q first okay. Hey why are you going top lone druid come with me to bottom so we can dominate this lane look I'm lich and you're lone druid we can win this lane easy let clockwerk solo top. Axe wtf are you going top go to jungle ffs! OMG WE LOSE BECAUSE OF YOU AXE!"

All chat: "GG this axe goes to lane instead of jungle we lose fuck matchmaking"

And then he wonders why people mute him.