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[Sutremaine]

It was suggested in another topic that the community come to some sort of agreement regarding newbies who ask about HFS, or rather that shiny sword in the middle of nowhere. It's worth a try, at least.

I favour telling them that it's dangerous and warning them about the zombies, but once they've hacked through the hordes of stinking undead they'll be able to claim the sword. And nothing else. What does everyone else think?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Give them cryptic warnings. Tell them of the wonders of adamantine, but be vague on how easy it can be for one false swing of a pick to bring demonic death on their fort. If they ask, give them advice, but don't tell them why.

[Graebeard]

I think I agree with you.  The best way seems to be giving encouraging, but vague advice.  We should avoid lying wherever possible.  It is unlikely we'll be able to get everyone on the same page, but at least if we don't lie there's less of a chance someone will come in to scold and spoil.

[RAKninja]

It was suggested in another topic that the community come to some sort of agreement regarding newbies who ask about HFS, or rather that shiny sword in the middle of nowhere. It's worth a try, at least.

I favour telling them that it's dangerous and warning them about the zombies, but once they've hacked through the hordes of stinking undead they'll be able to claim the sword. And nothing else. What does everyone else think?

you know, in making this thread, you could have avoided specific mention of things like zombie guards.

i hate to be a stick in the mud, but that really put a damper on my day.

[Quietust]

you know, in making this thread, you could have avoided specific mention of things like zombie guards.

i hate to be a stick in the mud, but that really put a damper on my day.

Topic: Coming to an agreement on HFS (spoilers)

You're the one who chose to read an HFS spoiler thread, so you have only yourself to blame if you got spoilered.

[Sutremaine]

I'd also suggest treating it as any other question, with people just answering the question and making magma jokes instead of getting cagey.

Also, what Quietust said.

[RAKninja]

you know, in making this thread, you could have avoided specific mention of things like zombie guards.

i hate to be a stick in the mud, but that really put a damper on my day.

Topic: Coming to an agreement on HFS (spoilers)

You're the one who chose to read an HFS spoiler thread, so you have only yourself to blame if you got spoilered.

this topic is a carryover from a non-spoilered thread.  i got spoiled thinking i was going to help someone find out who dropped their gear or something.

i am also in my usual state of sleep deprivation, so my brain kind of shut off after reading up to "HFS".  the use of the spoiler tag in the subject, does make my post seem buffoonish.  i messed up.

on the other hand, is it not possible to talk about how to talk about spoilers without actually specifically mentioning said spoilers?  should the uninformed newbie not have a chance to voice his opinion on the matter without being spoiled?

i should perhaps get sleep, my sentence structure is so obtuse as to be near unreadable, even to myself.

[Graebeard]

Funnily enough, it seems like one of the most likely ways for a newer player to get spoiled is by another new player throwing around terms like "adamantine sword" that should be spoilered willy nilly.  Then again, I don't know of a way to warn anybody about that without simultaneously spoiling things...

[Sutremaine]

on the other hand, is it not possible to talk about how to talk about spoilers without actually specifically mentioning said spoilers?

Probably, but why make things more difficult for ourselves? The aim of the topic is to figure out how to answer a specific question in such a way that the questioner walks away satisfied and completely unaware that only their literal question has been answered, and incompletely at that.

Since you're probably the only person here who doesn't know all about the HFS (I don't know how much you know), how would you suggest handling a question about that adamantine oddity in the stocks screen?

[RAKninja]

on the other hand, is it not possible to talk about how to talk about spoilers without actually specifically mentioning said spoilers?

Probably, but why make things more difficult for ourselves? The aim of the topic is to figure out how to answer a specific question in such a way that the questioner walks away satisfied and completely unaware that only their literal question has been answered, and incompletely at that.

Since you're probably the only person here who doesn't know all about the HFS (I don't know how much you know), how would you suggest handling a question about that adamantine oddity in the stocks screen?

i've gone out of my way to avoid getting spoiled since i first saw the word "adamantium" on DFWiki, and the big spoiler tag and whitespace.  perhaps i'm weird, but it's a lot of fun to me not really knowing what to expect.  unfortunately, i think most of the big things have at least been partially revealed to me by way of forum posts.

what i was getting at in my last post was that the term "HFS" is understood to include certain... phenomena, right?  so, by saying "how do we discuss HFS" you dont really have a reason to offhandedly add in "like hordes of zombies protecting a special sword".  we're not making it any harder to understand the subject by mentioning specific HFS, and by doing it like this, you can get the opinions of those who have yet to discover all of the things grouped as HFS.

how would i explain the sword?  about the same way as adamantine mining.  something along the lines of "dig down and claim it if you dare, but be prepared for the consequences.  many mountainhomes have fallen because the dwarves were too greedy, and have dug too deep" 

i'm pretty sure i'm paraphrasing something, but i cannot remember the source.   perhaps one of the spoiler-free or -lite adamantine articles on the wiki.

i do not mean to belabour the subject overmuch, or come off as sounding rude or angry.  after all, it's not like anything, even in my game, was "ruined forever" by these two discussions.  but, if i can help another somewhat clueless newbie, such as myself, preserve "the magic of discovery"... i will.

[Sutremaine]

what i was getting at in my last post was that the term "HFS" is understood to include certain... phenomena, right?  so, by saying "how do we discuss HFS" you dont really have a reason to offhandedly add in "like hordes of zombies protecting a special sword".

They were in the other topic. There were screenshots. I made a post about them. I don't understand why you're talking about the zombie mention I made here, but not in the other topic. & yes, there are certain phenomena associated with HFS. Some are more visible than others.

how would i explain the sword?  about the same way as adamantine mining.  something along the lines of "dig down and claim it if you dare, but be prepared for the consequences.  many mountainhomes have fallen because the dwarves were too greedy, and have dug too deep"

I'm not sure if being vague on this topic and this topic alone is really the best bet. If you'd been asking questions and getting numerous detailed answers and suddenly everyone started clamming up, would that make you back off? I got sucked into DF by reading the wiki, so I was spoiled well before hitting the forums and have no experience of spoilers here.

In my experience, the HFS-discovering newbie keeps asking about what's going to happen, and enough people come by throwing vague hints that the questioner knows something's up. Eventually it gets to the point where other people come in and start shushing the hint-givers, and by the time the questioner makes a decision they know more than what's good for... well, the rest of us.

[RAKninja]

They were in the other topic. There were screenshots. I made a post about them. I don't understand why you're talking about the zombie mention I made here, but not in the other topic. & yes, there are certain phenomena associated with HFS. Some are more visible than others.

because it's right here in front of me, and i'm avoiding the other thread.  that, and i goofed up reading the thread title.  or not reading, more specifically.

In my experience, the HFS-discovering newbie keeps asking about what's going to happen, and enough people come by throwing vague hints that the questioner knows something's up. Eventually it gets to the point where other people come in and start shushing the hint-givers, and by the time the questioner makes a decision they know more than what's good for... well, the rest of us.

you've no doubt been here longer than i, i do not know how these situations play themselves out here.  by all rights, the questioner should know something's up from the simple fact he is questioning something like "why is there an adamantium sword in my stocks when i just embarked?" or "why wont the pink &'s stop coming out of this hole i found in the adamantium?" 

perhaps a better way than hints and counterhints and shushing is to link persistent questioners to the DFWiki HFS entry.  it even provides "fair warning" that the information is spoileriffic.  after all, is not the best option to let someone choose if they want to be spoiled or not?

[OniRyo]

(anyone reading this thread thus far should be fully aware of spoilers in this thread by this point and as such by continuing to read I'm assuming they are forgoing their rights to complain about spoilers..... You have been warned by now - a lot)




Well I think a very strong suggestion should be they backup their save before pulling the sword. This goes double if since some one will be goading them into pulling it claiming it to be harmless. Just tell them it opens to a new cavern usually and some times it causes a fortress ending bug so backup the save BEFORE you yank it to be safe. Technically it's a lie since there is no associated bug that I know of but at the same time it is only fair for people who want to coax them into rushing in and releasing the flood of doom large supply of fun so the newb can experience the "HOLY CRAP!!" moment without their fort being totally destroyed saturated with fun if they where attached to how it was.

As far as content of what to tell them.... I guess just answer their direct questions but don't mention that the entire circus is being lead by Pennywise the Dancing Clown from hell?

[RAKninja]

As far as content of what to tell them.... I guess just answer their direct questions but don't mention that the entire circus is being lead by Pennywise the Dancing Clown from hell?

sorry, i cannot resist.....


kiss me fatboy.
http://youtu.be/bFeNcnzjkcs

[IT 000]

I agree with Sutremaine's principle, but I believe we should be even more vague. Simply say "Adamantine is the best metal in the game. A masterwork Adamantine sword would be a great weapon. But it may be very difficult to get to. To recover the sword, deconstruct it like you would a normal building." I don't think that we should explicitly say there are zombies. It would be like raiding the King's Treasury when you already know that it's guarded by war dogs. It takes a chunk away from the experience.

More vague the better, but we shouldn't outright lie to them. If they continue to prod we could merely say that that would spoil the game and refuse to divulge sensitive information.

I believe however that we should be able to recommend they do not do it until they are prepared. Or straight up say "I don't recommend you do this." If they prod why merely state that the weapon is guarded.