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(I need suggestions is what I'm saying.)

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Total Members Voted: 0

[Fenrir]

Because other ones were even less humane. Seriously, execute a man who doesn't even remember the crime he committed and is incapable to commit it again? Or put him to prison as an extraordinary act of "mercy"? "Hey, dude, some guy who previously occupied your body has killed someone, but don't worry! You're not him, so you just get some prison instead. Isn't it wonderful?".

So why not just forget inhumane and skip to what is humane?

EDIT: Wait a minute. We were not discussing what it was you wanted to do with the man in the scenario; we were discussing your decision to implement personality rewrites as a form of punishment, but you admit that, while less inhumane than a death penalty (and I am not sure that wasting a body counts as inhumane anyway), it is still inhumane.

Wait, I thought he was saying that intentionally rewriting someone's personality is more humane than the death penalty.

After managing to find the proper procedure of personality rewrite, replace death sentence with the new punishment.

He is suggesting that we replace the death penalty with a personality rewrite, which, while less inhumane, still is not the most humane option, so I do not know why he chose it.

EDIT FOR CLARITY: When I say “option”, I do not mean the poll. Though, anything could be put under “Another option,” so I suppose it would count anyway.

[Bdthemag]

How is that remotely just? You aren't even punishing the same person anymore. The guy who committed the murder is effectively dead. The person he is now doesn't even remember the murder. There is absolutely no purpose served by keeping him in jail.

I mean, what possible social implication could freeing him have? That you can get away with murdering someone if you completely change who you are through a freak accident afterwards, even though there's pretty much no chance of that being possible?

First of all, how can we know that personality is gone? He could practically switch back at any time.

[G-Flex]

How is that remotely just? You aren't even punishing the same person anymore. The guy who committed the murder is effectively dead. The person he is now doesn't even remember the murder. There is absolutely no purpose served by keeping him in jail.

I mean, what possible social implication could freeing him have? That you can get away with murdering someone if you completely change who you are through a freak accident afterwards, even though there's pretty much no chance of that being possible?

First of all, how can we know that personality is gone? He could practically switch back at any time.

We know because it's assumed as part of the question that remnants of the original personality are no longer there. If we can't assume that, then things change.

On the other hand, in (I'd think) most places, when someone is psychologically unfit to stand trial, they don't. I don't know what legal precedent would apply here, but severe amnesia and a bizarre personality replacement would certainly qualify as a mental disability whether the old personality is liable to resurface or not, and as such, I wouldn't do anymore more inhumane than place him in the care of a mental health facility if it isn't clear that his old personality is gone for good.

[Gantolandon]

First of all, how can we know that personality is gone? He could practically switch back at any time.

We assumed that in the beginning of the discussion.

So why not just forget inhumane and skip to what is humane?

EDIT: Wait a minute. We were not discussing what it was you wanted to do with the man in the scenario; we were discussing your decision to implement personality rewrites as a form of punishment, but you admit that, while less inhumane than a death penalty (and I am not sure that wasting a body counts as inhumane anyway), it is still inhumane.

Of course. If someone wants to choose between death penalty and personality rewrite, it is a no-brainer for me. The first eradicates the man completely, the second puts another one inside his body so he could live up his life. It is a no-brainer for me. So replacing death penalty with personality rewrite actually would be better than not doing anything at all.

[Fenrir]

Of course. If someone wants to choose between death penalty and personality rewrite, it is a no-brainer for me. The first eradicates the man completely, the second puts another one inside his body so he could live up his life. It is a no-brainer for me. So replacing death penalty with personality rewrite actually would be better than not doing anything at all.

You were never asked to choose between a death penalty and a personality rewrite. We were asked what should be done, but you even admit that your answer is not what should be done. By your reasoning, we may as well just leave the innocent man in the scenario in prison, because it is better than being put to death. I mean, if someone wants to choose between life in prison and death, it's a no-brainer for me.

[Rooster]

I voted death, and here's my reasoning:

Anyone who has 0 self control to the point of killing someone, is an animal.
Nothing personal, just saying that if an animal is pardoned for it's lack of ulterior motives for killing, the man should be dehumanized for doing the same.
He should be put down, as his brain function clearly has a "kill switch" and is a threat to normal, "human" humans. You know, the ones that don't go out killing people. Again nothing personal, I don't hate murderers. Just saying that the sentence shouldn't be altered for the sake of pragmatism.

However, that is not by my standards morally right thing to do. I think it would be a perfectly sensible act of forgiveness if he was released. But I'm not christian and I don't believe in good, evil, justice & forgiveness.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

On the subject of the possiblity of him switching back: As I said before, it really isn't plausable that he will switch back. There is substantial evidence that this is a permanent change, most notably the fact that the man's MRI results have significantly changed from prison medical records. No psychologist can find anything to suggest that anything of the old personality remains. As for the medical unlikeliness of this scenario coming about: That's the point. It's a new, very improbable situation, and I'm asking to to pass judgement on it.

He should be put down, as his brain function clearly has a "kill switch" and is a threat to normal, "human" humans.

Rooster, almost anyone is capible of bypassing the inbuilt inhibitor against killing other humans in the right circumstances. That's one purpose of training people who go into active combat roles in modern militaries: To give people the mindset to be able to (hopefuly) temporarally turn off that mental inhibitor.

However, that is not by my standards morally right thing to do. I think it would be a perfectly sensible act of forgiveness if he was released. But I'm not christian and I don't believe in good, evil, justice & forgiveness.

I'm not a christian either, but I believe in all of those things. None of those concepts are tied into christianity, at least not wholly.

[Gantolandon]

You were never asked to choose between a death penalty and a personality rewrite. We were asked what should be done, but you even admit that your answer is not what should be done. By your reasoning, we may as well just leave the innocent man in the scenario in prison, because it is better than being put to death. I mean, if someone wants to choose between life in prison and death, it's a no-brainer for me.

Nope. I said to let him go and start implementing personality rewrite INSTEAD of death penalty. As in - give everyone who normally gets death penalty a rewrite.

[Virex]

Consider the usual circumstances under which a full personality rewrite comes to be*, you'd first need to get rid of the ban on cruel and unusual punishments...


*Not for the squishy:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It usually involves destruction of a significant part of the frontal lobe of the brain IIRC. One of the best documented I can remember was when someone got his head impaled by a steel nail which managed not to hit anything life-threatening...

[Vector]

Phineas Gage.

He ended up having his self-control destroyed with the damage to his prefrontal cortex, and he was prone to irrational, violent rages and poor decision-making ability.  Of course, it's been supposed that the attending physician somewhat overreported some of the symptoms mentioned.

[Gantolandon]

Consider the usual circumstances under which a full personality rewrite comes to be*, you'd first need to get rid of the ban on cruel and unusual punishments...

Uh, can we decide if we are going to discuss about a philosophical issue or an actual case in an actual country? It's like we tried to solve this classic riddle with a man who always lies and another one who always says truth and someone proposed beating the answer out of them. Or suggested using GPS instead.

[Virex]

Consider the usual circumstances under which a full personality rewrite comes to be*, you'd first need to get rid of the ban on cruel and unusual punishments...

Uh, can we decide if we are going to discuss about a philosophical issue or an actual case in an actual country? It's like we tried to solve this classic riddle with a man who always lies and another one who always says truth and someone proposed beating the answer out of them. Or suggested using GPS instead.

I don't know if I'd like to live in a country that doesn't have laws against the procedure needed to do a full personality rewrite, and that's coming from someone who's not opposed to corporal or capital punishment in some cases.

[Gantolandon]

I don't know if I'd like to live in a country that doesn't have laws against the procedure needed to do a full personality rewrite, and that's coming from someone who's not opposed to corporal or capital punishment in some cases.

How is it different from capital punishment?

[Virex]

Capital punishment is nearly instantaneous (in the sense that it rarely lasts longer then 15 minutes tops). The treatments we're talking about here will involve involuntary, excruciating pain for up to several months (or multiple painkiller addictions), as well as the knowledge that you were someone else and did something horrible in that form, along with the stigmata of a murderer/rapist/pedophile/jaywalker because others may not know or care your personality has changed. And then there's the very real possibility that the chance is not for the better. Results such as lack of self-control, lack of empathy, trouble with processing sensory data and epilepsy have been reported and it's not exactly clear what you can and can't damage.


And I haven't even touched upon the kind of research that would be needed to get a project like this to work.

[Felius]

Consider the usual circumstances under which a full personality rewrite comes to be*, you'd first need to get rid of the ban on cruel and unusual punishments...

Uh, can we decide if we are going to discuss about a philosophical issue or an actual case in an actual country? It's like we tried to solve this classic riddle with a man who always lies and another one who always says truth and someone proposed beating the answer out of them. Or suggested using GPS instead.

I don't know if I'd like to live in a country that doesn't have laws against the procedure needed to do a full personality rewrite, and that's coming from someone who's not opposed to corporal or capital punishment in some cases.

I'd be okay with it as long it can never be the only option of the condemned, and it's considered as the same level as a capital punishment. Specifically, give the death row inmate the option: You have got the death penalty, but if you wish so, you can get a total personality rewrite.

On the original subject, put him under observation, so we can both see how he is going to behave now (the brain damage might have left him with psychological issues that would stop him from working in society), and study the effects of brain damage to personality. Assuming his new mind don't have any problematic issue, his releasing is still kinda too problematic, as it creates very bad precedent. I'd say move him to a nice psychological institution (as in, actually nice, not nightmarish nice), where he can be studied. This way, at least if anyone complains and ask for his blood, one can say his case is too unique to kill like that.