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[Max White]

Why do we need to have a license anyways, we have a BACKGROUND CHECK done on us everytime we buy one of the damn things. Its amazing what the FBI keeps on records for the people.

No that would be superfluous. The idea is that they do a background check on you when you go to get your license.
A gun license is an assurance that if they did a background check on you, you would pass to the level where you can own and operate a firearm. Or at least that is what it is meant to be, I'm starting to get the feeling that anything that resembles gun regulation in the US is just a cunning façade for a government fundraising exercise.

[Nadaka]

Tellemuris: yes that would be the procedure when you know the serial number of the gun you are looking for. To find out what gun if any is registered to a person, you would have to perform a search at any gun store they may have bought a gun from.

Montague: I don't think that easy registration searching poses any risk of denying people access to guns. But it may be abused to treat gun owners differently.

Max White: its a little fucked because of paranoid gun nutters. But it isn't as bad as you make it sound.

NOte: I am just going to post this anyway even though I got ninja'd and have not read the last 4 posts.

[Tellemurius]

Why do we need to have a license anyways, we have a BACKGROUND CHECK done on us everytime we buy one of the damn things. Its amazing what the FBI keeps on records for the people.

No that would be superfluous. The idea is that they do a background check on you when you go to get your license.
A gun license is an assurance that if they did a background check on you, you would pass to the level where you can own and operate a firearm. Or at least that is what it is meant to be, I'm starting to get the feeling that anything that resembles gun regulation in the US is just a cunning façade for a government fundraising exercise.

Max it works no matter what, a fucking license won't change anything still. Stop rubbing your laws into our faces, we seem to be perfectly fine thank you.

[Blargityblarg]

Perfectly fine is a mighty subjective thing, but it might be best to let this sleeping dog lie.

[Max White]

Max it works no matter what, a fucking license won't change anything still. Stop rubbing your laws into our faces, we seem to be perfectly fine thank you.

Wouldn't it be ideal if the police had access to your criminal records and gun licencing records, while the gun store owners only had access to your gun license records, so if you wanted to buy a gun, the gun store owners could be assured you were a licensed and safe gun owner by the police without having to do a background check?

[Montague]

Why do we need to have a license anyways, we have a BACKGROUND CHECK done on us everytime we buy one of the damn things. Its amazing what the FBI keeps on records for the people.

No that would be superfluous. The idea is that they do a background check on you when you go to get your license.
A gun license is an assurance that if they did a background check on you, you would pass to the level where you can own and operate a firearm. Or at least that is what it is meant to be, I'm starting to get the feeling that anything that resembles gun regulation in the US is just a cunning façade for a government fundraising exercise.

You've clearly never purchased a firearm in the USA. A gun license here would be superfluous. A background check is done every single time a firearm is sold. Identities are verfied and vetted with every purchase. It would just be a more inefficient way of doing business. You'd need to renew a gun license. An individual prevously trusted with a firearm could be later known as a violent criminal and depending on the renewal rate of that license, could waltz in and purchase something significant because the gun owner permit is still valid. It could deny gun ownership to a person who has very little interest in such, keeps a rusty shotgun in the closet for whatever or no reason besides that it's a heirloom or some such and if their license expires? The police should raid their house and take that firearm and arrest it's presumed owner because the certificate it belongs to is expired?

In this case a permit doesn't make much sense. The system is actually fine the way it is. It has nothing to do with 'paranoid nutters' or anything else, so much as it has to do with the reality of the second amendment and the reality of gun ownership in the USA.

[MadocComadrin]

@Max: the system works fairly well. Ownership and (depending on the state) open and conceal carry licenses are given after a good background check, and then the owners (especially in the case of open and conceal carry) are forced upon them the obligation of nonescalation. Committing a crime with gun license often leads to heavier charges, if not a 5 year mandatory sentence, even if a gun wasn't used in the crime.

As for the firearm registration, it may seem unwieldy at first, but remember, the FBI isn't investigating every crime, and local police stations are often keep in touch with local firearm businesses (for both checking firearm registries as well as buying ammunition and guns themselves [so it makes good business sense to cooperate with the police too!]). Often, the gun store will even look up the details via a phone request and have them ready.

In the end, tracing a gun to a legitimate owner ends up being trivial if the gun was registered and bought buy a licensed person (anything else is criminal).

On another note, a central registry wouldn't be "where the action is."

[Max White]

An individual prevously trusted with a firearm could be later known as a violent criminal and depending on the renewal rate of that license, could waltz in and purchase something significant because the gun owner permit is still valid.

But if the police had access to gun licence records, then if you are convicted of a crime that would disallow you to own a gun licence, they push a button on their computer and void your licence. Then next time you try to buy a gun, the store owner checks your license and notices 'Oh, this thing has been voided! Fuck, I'm not selling this guy a gun!'

[Tellemurius]

An individual prevously trusted with a firearm could be later known as a violent criminal and depending on the renewal rate of that license, could waltz in and purchase something significant because the gun owner permit is still valid.

But if the police had access to gun licence records, then if you are convicted of a crime that would disallow you to own a gun licence, they push a button on their computer and void your licence. Then next time you try to buy a gun, the store owner checks your license and notices 'Oh, this thing has been voided! Fuck, I'm not selling this guy a gun!'

What do you think they look for in background checks Max?

[Max White]

I haven't the foggiest idea Tellemurius, please tell me, what is in a background check?

[Montague]

I haven't the foggiest idea Tellemurius, please tell me, what is in a background check?

The background check checks all criminal history, mental health history, everything of that sort.

The guy selling the gun, calls up the state office responsible and has access to these records and inquires if this individual, who has provided identity as such, if they are qualified to own a firearm or not. If the government office searches their records and finds no disqualifying history, permission is granted for that retailer to sell that firearm to that person.

A receipt is made detailing the person making the purchase and the specific firearm being sold and that is kept on record.

That's it. Every firearm purchase in the USA is made by explict consent of the government.

[Frumple]

Not every, but every legal one going through a shop that sells firearms, yes.

Second hard, etc, happen without gov' vetting. I'm not quite sure how auctioning and gunshow stuff goes down, though.

[Max White]

The background check checks all criminal history, mental health history, everything of that sort.

Oh, so does that mean the guy selling you the gun has access to this information?

[Frumple]

Max, he calls the state office, who do, or at least can contact whoever does. Not the person on the ground. There's usually a minimum wait (5-7 days, iirc?) involved with any firearm purchase.

[Max White]

Ah, so it takes a long wait... Well wouldn't it be better if they could do the check before you even decided you wanted to buy a gun? If that was already taken care of?