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[Vector]

If it was in exchange for efficient, smooth public transportation?

Yeah, I'd take it.

[MonkeyHead]

I trust you have not had the privelage of trying the UK bus or train system. Not only priced to be more expensive than using private transport, but unreliable (to the end that people are suprised when thier train is on time), terrible in terms of efficiency (the routes reflect victorian industrial priorities and not modern population/commuter routes - a 2 hr drive to Birmingham compared to a 4 and a half hour tran journey with 3 changes, one at Crewe... which used to be a big important place but is now little more than a dead ex industrial wasteland) and downright dirty (again, badly againg victorian stations, rotting away, trains that no-one seems to ever clean...)...

Granted, the systems in Germany and Switzerland are quite nice. But 2 states from the whole of the EU isnt a big section.

[SalmonGod]

Yeah... Americans depend on independent transportation a lot more than most people in the world. 

I live 5 miles from my workplace, which is the closest I could find.  There's no public transportation here.  Bicycling is dangerous, since most roads don't have a sidewalk next to them or even a decent shoulder.  Losing independent transport would impact me drastically.  As it is, I ride a motorcycle almost year-round to save on gas.  The only thing that stops me is risk of ice on the road.

[Vector]

France and Russia were both frankly unbelievable compared to what we have here.  Let's put it this way: yeah, I, too, am generally surprised if transport arrives anything like on time.  As in "Oh, it's only 20 minutes late!  Cool!"

Hell, I'd take New York's system and all of its shittitude in an instant.

[RedKing]

Made all the worse in many places by urban sprawl. A tightly concentrated "old" city like New York or Boston is a prime candidate for mass transit. High population density -- the city grew up, not out.

"Newer" cities were mostly inhabited by people who wanted the amenities of a big city but not the density. And for many years, land was cheap in much of the US. So the cities grew out instead of up. Which is why it takes 2 hours to drive from one side of Atlanta to the other. It's why Los Angeles isn't so much a city as a manmade tectonic plate of concrete and asphalt.

@Vector:  LOL...and here my impression of BART was "Wow, this is a lot better than what we have." In that...y'know...you HAD a mass transit. 

[Vector]

Bart's fine for inter-city stuff, but our bus system is an embarrassment--especially because this is a college town with basically zero parking space, where that sort of thing is really obligatory.

[Siquo]

Granted, the systems in Germany and Switzerland are quite nice. But 2 states from the whole of the EU isnt a big section.

One, Switzerland isn't EU

And yes, public transport sounds better than it usually is. I travelled through the US for a bit, using ONLY public transport (greyhound, martha, what-have-you), and it was all very clean and had nice people in it. It's true though that it usually only pays off in highly populated areas.

[RedKing]

Bart's fine for inter-city stuff, but our bus system is an embarrassment--especially because this is a college town with basically zero parking space, where that sort of thing is really obligatory.

Huh. My daughter and I had no problems with the buses (although we were in SF proper, not Berkeley).

College towns almost always have zero parking space. (Except for Norman, OK...OU has acres of parking lots for students. But then, it's Oklahoma. Their number one natural resource is empty space.)

[MonkeyHead]

Europe the continent, the EEC and the EU always get muddled in my head. TBH my geographical knowledge is fantasic within Wales, but useless for pretty much the rest of the world.

[Siquo]

my geographical knowledge is fantasic within Wales

That is impressive. At least, if you can pronounce all the villagenames in Welsh as well

[RedKing]

my geographical knowledge is fantasic within Wales

That is impressive. At least, if you can pronounce all the villagenames in Welsh as well

Especially Llanfairpwllgwyngyll.

"Pat, I'd like to buy the Welsh a vowel?"
(yes, I know "w" is a vowel in Welsh...)

EDIT: Oh dear Babel....the actual long form of the name is: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch   
No wonder the Welsh lost to the English. They were still telling their troops where to deploy by the time the English were in their capital. 

[MonkeyHead]

I live in one called both Llanllechid (Phonetically in English something like lcch-ha-han-lcch-eh-ch-he-e-dd) and Rachub (Rah-aa-cch-uh-bb) - in english, "The Safe Place", a ten min drive from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch (Pronounced: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Cy-Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.ogg , more or less Llan-vire-pooll-guin-gill-go-ger-u-queern-drob-ooll-llandus-ilio-gogo-goch in english), meaning "St Mary's church in the hollow of the white hazel near to the rpid whirlpool of Llantysilio of the red cave", for some reason that was taken to the grave.

You try spelling either of them to a call centre operative in Mumbai when explaining to them about broadband issues...

[RedKing]

I live in one called Llanllechid (Phonetically in English something like lcch-ha-han-lcch-eh-ch-he-e-dd). You try spelling that to a call centre operative in Mumbai when explaining to them about broadmand issues...

The irony, of course, is that you're talking to someone with a last name like Srinivasaraghavan.

LOL...I also found that the above-mentioned crazy-long-name Welsh town is a sister city to the French commune of Y. It's a living punch line.

[palsch]

Speaking of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[G-Flex]

And yes, public transport sounds better than it usually is. I travelled through the US for a bit, using ONLY public transport (greyhound, martha, what-have-you), and it was all very clean and had nice people in it. It's true though that it usually only pays off in highly populated areas.

Greyhound is public transport? Aren't they a private company or a corporation?