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[Glowcat]

I'm kind of wondering what this "Patriarchy" collective is. I always feel that I shouldn't read the Shakesville because I'm looking at someone meant for someone else to look at and that I, as a male who isn't doing anything about women's rights or a victim of something (not that I know of), that I am intruding in some hallowed ground for someone who isn't a major demo and has the most rights or whatever (the hetero-white-male demo to be specific).

It's general societal bias which creates injustice among all genders.

[blackmagechill]

I'm kind of wondering what this "Patriarchy" collective is. I always feel that I shouldn't read the Shakesville because I'm looking at someone meant for someone else to look at and that I, as a male who isn't doing anything about women's rights or a victim of something (not that I know of), that I am intruding in some hallowed ground for someone who isn't a major demo and has the most rights or whatever (the hetero-white-male demo to be specific).

It's general societal bias which creates injustice among all genders.

Then why call it the Patriarchy? I'd rather you assign a general term, because you're sort of alienating anyone who isn't a woman because it's assigning a negative connotation to a gender specific term.

[Glowcat]

Then why call it the Patriarchy? I'd rather you assign a general term, because you're sort of alienating anyone who isn't a woman because it's assigning a negative connotation to a gender specific term.

I share this disagreement. Same with the term feminist.

[blackmagechill]

Progressivist gets more PR simply because feminist has a negative connotation, and a little bit of PR goes a lot longer then any actual truth, fact, or moral obligation (which are largely ignored unless you have a reason to get involved).

[Andir]

[funding complaints ...]

I suppose you have seen that they doubled funding?  ( source links here: http://www.politifact.com/ohio/promises/kasich-o-meter/promise/782/promote-school-choice/ ) ... so that pretty much invalidates most of your post.  Sure... there are still some cuts (but mainly from wealthy districts.)

Funding is done on a per student basis (despite the vouchers for the lower 5%... that allow parents to get their kids out of the poor performance school.)  This means that those poor schools you claim are hurt by this are actually getting a proportionate amount of money.  I also don't understand your claim that the district can just raise taxes... if you're in a poor district, isn't that like squeezing water out of a lump of dirt?

The rest of your post just sounds like you are mad simply to be mad at something (because he's republican?  because he's trying to cut the overspending?)  You stated yourself that you don't know what the options entail.  To you that sounds like you are mad at uncertainty.

RE: Teach for America...
Apparently they get results:
http://www.hydefoundation.org/news/2011/01/06/teach-for-america-grads-in-tennessee-outperform-their-peers.155670
http://www.urban.org/publications/411642.html

The findings show that TFA teachers are more effective, as measured by student exam performance, than traditional teachers. Moreover, they suggest that the TFA effect, at least in the grades and subjects investigated, exceeds the impact of additional years of experience, implying that TFA teachers are more effective than experienced secondary school teachers. The positive TFA results are robust across subject areas, but are particularly strong for math and science classes.

I don't care if you think Kasich is the biggest ass in the world.  The proposal sounds great to me.

Also, what's with the attitude?

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_in_qIfT538&feature=channel
He talks specifically about cuyahoga county's problem.

[Truean]

Your Post:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[funding complaints ...]

I suppose you have seen that they doubled funding?  ( source links here: http://www.politifact.com/ohio/promises/kasich-o-meter/promise/782/promote-school-choice/ ) ... so that pretty much invalidates most of your post.  Sure... there are still some cuts (but mainly from wealthy districts.)

Funding is done on a per student basis (despite the vouchers for the lower 5%... that allow parents to get their kids out of the poor performance school.)  This means that those poor schools you claim are hurt by this are actually getting a proportionate amount of money.  I also don't understand your claim that the district can just raise taxes... if you're in a poor district, isn't that like squeezing water out of a lump of dirt?

The rest of your post just sounds like you are mad simply to be mad at something (because he's republican?  because he's trying to cut the overspending?)  You stated yourself that you don't know what the options entail.  To you that sounds like you are mad at uncertainty.

RE: Teach for America...
Apparently they get results:
http://www.hydefoundation.org/news/2011/01/06/teach-for-america-grads-in-tennessee-outperform-their-peers.155670
http://www.urban.org/publications/411642.html

The findings show that TFA teachers are more effective, as measured by student exam performance, than traditional teachers. Moreover, they suggest that the TFA effect, at least in the grades and subjects investigated, exceeds the impact of additional years of experience, implying that TFA teachers are more effective than experienced secondary school teachers. The positive TFA results are robust across subject areas, but are particularly strong for math and science classes.

I don't care if you think Kasich is the biggest ass in the world.  The proposal sounds great to me.

Also, what's with the attitude?

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_in_qIfT538&feature=channel
He talks specifically about cuyahoga county's problem.

Hey Andir. Try not to ascribe motives to me or put words in my mouth while ignoring my very clear CRAC (Conclusion, Rule, Analysis Conclusion) formulated arguments. You've done this before on this thread and I'm not about to deal with it:

(I know... I'm not supposed to being up prevention or solutions, only sit around the campfire and share feelings and hug... sorry!)

Did I say that?

No.  No, I did not.  This is part of cleaning up your rhetoric, bucko.  You stop putting words in the OP's mouth.

What did you think it was going to do for you, hm?  I run off, and go "Oh man, he has demeaned the space I am maintaining by implying that it is nothing more than a little support group, no matter how many arguments and oppositions I have entertained here!  No fucking way.  I will immediately stop policing language in order to allow people who have actually experienced this shit to speak, because Andir's opinion is the most important."

No.  If you disagree with my attitudes and opinions--particularly about moderation--you can ask questions or make a case, whatever.  I've gotten PMs about this, spoken about it in other threads.  Hell, the first couple pages are basically about suggestions in changes to the OP and its interpretation, putting both religion and conservatism under its banner of protection.  I've happily listened to all of these people and incorporated their suggestions.  But I am tired of sitting here and having to moderate your nastiness.

Your points are perfectly valid, but if you want people to listen to you, you need to stop this.  Period.  It isn't conducive to keeping the status of this thread inside debate and outside argument.

I addressed your points specifically whereas you sorta glanced over mine and filled in whatever you thought I meant. I made references to your articles, all of which I took the time to read. Your quotation of my well thought out points was simply:

[funding complaints ...]

If you're not going to take the time to deal with my posts I'm not going to take the time to deal with yours, except to say that I understand Ohio law better than most anyone else you'll meet. Look back through my numerous posts on law and you'll see why.... . Hint, I argue for a living in Ohio....

[Andir]

We've all agreed to get past the previous ordeal... I've agreed to move on even with the hanging issues.


If you want to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the issue because you don't like me, fine.  Just so others know that you are doing it.

[Truean]

We've all agreed to get past the previous ordeal... I've agreed to move on even with the hanging issues.


If you want to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the issue because you don't like me, fine.  Just so others know that you are doing it.

No, no.

This has nothing to do with the "previous ordeal." I'm showing that you've behaved this way before and you're behaving this way now, again. Specifically, you've put words in people's mouths before and now you're trying to put them in mine, except I'm not about to let it work.... You've been called on this before.....

You're talking about doubling funding... for an incredibly small program in charter schools while ignoring the mountains of spending cuts along with every other point I raised. You gave absolutely no attention to anything I said and you broke it down to two words without understanding any of it. Why should I bother giving you my attention when you're basically ignoring me, accusing me of being mad for the sake of being mad, only being against Kasich because he's Republican and talking right past me.

Either agree to disagree and move on (I'm giving you a way out to save face), or specifically address my points instead of quoting them with a two word summation.

You're ascribing motives to me again, [See above quote box] "because you don't like me." <---- You think this is my motivation just like you said I'm only mad for the sake of being mad or against Kasich because he's Republican.  And my favorite part, "So others know I"m doing it?"

You honestly think that I'M ignoring... YOU...? Let's see, a.) you've done this before, b.) you quoted my well thought out points in two words which effectively ignores them, c.) you expressly ascribed bad motives to me in writing. You're not winning this point dude....

No no.....

[Bauglir]

Hurrrgh, I know this post makes me a tremendous hypocrite, but this is starting to seem like something that needs to be done in PM or something, because I feel like it's going to keep happening again and again. Oh, what I wouldn't give for some foresight instead of all this hindsight.

[Truean]

Hurrrgh, I know this post makes me a tremendous hypocrite, but this is starting to seem like something that needs to be done in PM or something, because I feel like it's going to keep happening again and again. Oh, what I wouldn't give for some foresight instead of all this hindsight.

I see no further point to discussing it unless something changes. Proving points is an occupational hazard to me. Sorry it clogged the thread briefly, it happens.

[Andir]

I'm happy that he's doing something about education.
I appreciate that it's moving away from a levee based system to one based on numbers of children.  (If you want more funding, fund all the kids... not just the ones in the rich neighborhoods that can support higher levees.)
I'm excited that parents have options opposed to "deal with it, pay your taxes"
From your list of points:  (Even I, the unprofessional arguer, ran into this information looking into the plan.)
- He's stated that parents can basically veto the school's direction and turn it over to the state to run.. like they do now. [state board instead of continuing to let the school run things their way]
- He's stated that parents can get together and decide to change the hours of operation, length of the school year, experiment...etc.  [fundamental change]
- Replacing staff with new hires, neighboring districts. [staff concerns]
Teach for America seems to be getting results.  I see no issue bringing those results here.
You talked about unfunded charter schools.  I provided a link to show funding.

The only things I did not really touch on were your stories about people who don't like it... but opinions are like assholes... etc.

Did I miss anything, oh great one?

Also, You are coming off very harsh/elitist IMHO.  Past history or whatever, I don't care, I would like it to stop though.

[sonerohi]

The only things I did not really touch on were your stories about people who don't like it... but opinions are like assholes... etc.

I have never heard this expression and am being so confused by it.

[Andir]

The only things I did not really touch on were your stories about people who don't like it... but opinions are like assholes... etc.

I have never heard this expression and am being so confused by it.

"Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks."

[SalmonGod]

"Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks."

[Andir]

Hurrrgh, I know this post makes me a tremendous hypocrite, but this is starting to seem like something that needs to be done in PM or something, because I feel like it's going to keep happening again and again. Oh, what I wouldn't give for some foresight instead of all this hindsight.

I see no further point to discussing it unless something changes. Proving points is an occupational hazard to me. Sorry it clogged the thread briefly, it happens.

You may be writing an elaborate post right now, but I'm going to bed.  As you are aware... it's late.  I have work in the morning.