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[Truean]

Ok, I'll softball this one:

What I think he might be trying to say:
Given that people are jerks about it and stubbornly refuse to think being gay is ok. We would rather have bigots thinking being gay is a choice than a disease, because this is the lesser harm on gay people in his view.

Except really it sucks no matter what type of thing bigots think being gay is and we're screwed either way. If it's a choice, then they will try to "convince" you to make a different one, sometimes with violence. If it is a disease, then you're subject to being experimentally treated with who knows what and your parents can consent for you as a kid. Even if it's genetic, then that means it should be bred out or "cured" with gene therapy.....

It really is a no win situation, however people think it is wrong, they still think it is wrong and that's the problem.

I wonder if Vector minds us commandeering her thread. On one hand, it's pretty rude to do that to someone. On the other hand, the topic seems to change so rapidly here that it doesn't matter anyways. Truly a conundrum.

Obviously she doesn't like the thread being derailed, the question is, is this a derail. That's, of course, up to her. She seems cool talking about women's rights and GLBT rights stuff from what I've seen so far, thankfully .

[freeformschooler]

What I've never understood is why people would think it's a "choice" when seriously, who would "choose" hatred and bigotry over a normal life?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What I've never understood is why people would think it's a "choice" when seriously, who would "choose" hatred and bigotry over a normal life?

Because the people who think that believe that non-heterosexuals are people who love to live in sin against God and the only lifestyle that is difficult or persecuted is their particular brand of True Christians™.

[Truean]

What I've never understood is why people would think it's a "choice" when seriously, who would "choose" hatred and bigotry over a normal life?

Actually yeah, that makes a decent point. If I have a choice, why the hell would I choose the hard road? Path of least resistance? Not this one....

 I "chose" to be straight, except of course it didn't work. Spent years denying it and trying to find girls attractive. My life has been exponentially complicated by this and made 100 fold harder. I happen to know a lovely girl who had a major crush on me in college and would've married me, except .... We're now bffs. My life would've been incredibly easier if I could take that deal....

[Edit: Dude, MetalSlimeHunt: I think he means who would choose to be gay when being made fun of meant you were hated by bigots, not who would choose to be bigots]

[MetalSlimeHunt]

My life would've been incredibly easier if I could take that deal....

I doubt that. People who live in self-denial to conform may not suffer societal penalties, but they'll almost certainly suffer significant mental and emotional penalties, which are worse. You made the right call.

[Truean]

My life would've been incredibly easier if I could take that deal....

I doubt that. People who live in self-denial to conform may not suffer societal penalties, but they'll almost certainly suffer significant mental and emotional penalties, which are worse. You made the right call.

No no, I mean if I actually were straight my life would've been easier. My entire life may be a lie, but I'm not marrying some girl and doing that road. Though I know a few people who did and it sucks.

[Tyg13]

No no, I mean if I actually were straight my life would've been easier. My entire life may be a lie, but I'm not marrying some girl and doing that road. Though I know a few people who did and it sucks.

I still hold out for the very miniscule chance that there actually is a cure for homosexuality. It would make my life a LOT simpler. Of course, it probably doesn't exist.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I still hold out for the very miniscule chance that there actually is a cure for homosexuality. It would make my life a LOT simpler. Of course, it probably doesn't exist.

Oh, it exists alright. It's called brainwashing. If you want your life to be simpler, stand up to bigots. Shame them, make them be the ones who step down and live a hard life. That is the only way we will see progress.

[Truean]

No no, I mean if I actually were straight my life would've been easier. My entire life may be a lie, but I'm not marrying some girl and doing that road. Though I know a few people who did and it sucks.

I still hold out for the very miniscule chance that there actually is a cure for homosexuality. It would make my life a LOT simpler. Of course, it probably doesn't exist.

The truly sad thing is that we'd consider a "cure" more practical than for people to stop being assholes.

If anything is a choice, being a bigot is a choice, so if people chose to stop being bigots.... That'd be a tad easier than changing the basics of who someone is.... Naturally, our society would prefer the "cure."

[Zrk2]

No no, I mean if I actually were straight my life would've been easier. My entire life may be a lie, but I'm not marrying some girl and doing that road. Though I know a few people who did and it sucks.

I still hold out for the very miniscule chance that there actually is a cure for homosexuality. It would make my life a LOT simpler. Of course, it probably doesn't exist.

... That can't be healthy.

[Truean]

Agreed, but it is rather common to go through that thought....

[Tyg13]

... That can't be healthy.

Probably not, but unfortunately I'd rather live my life hoping for something that doesn't exist and only having secret relationships than have pretty much my entire family shun me for being gay.

[freeformschooler]

Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure being bigoted is a choice either. I've grown up around bigots all my life (thankfully not my direct family), and it seems bigotry towards homosexuality usually comes from finding the whole idea innately gross or appalling -- the bible stuff is usually just a way for people to validate that feeling. Now, being outwardly bigoted, that's a choice.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

[Edit: Dude, MetalSlimeHunt: I think he means who would choose to be gay when being made fun of meant you were hated by bigots, not who would choose to be bigots]

He was saying that he didn't understand why anyone would mark homosexuality as a choice when they know that it has a heavy stigma attached to it and people are still homosexuals in spite of that stigma, suggesting that it isn't a choice.

Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure being bigoted is a choice either. I've grown up around bigots all my life (thankfully not my direct family), and it seems bigotry towards homosexuality usually comes from finding the whole idea innately gross or appalling -- the bible stuff is usually just a way for people to validate that feeling. Now, being outwardly bigoted, that's a choice.

A Muslim classmate of mine definitely falls into the "ew, gross" thing. He hates male homosexuals with a passion because, and I quote "what they do is disgusting", but has absolutely no problem with female homosexuals. There was just no reasoning with this guy, he seemed mentally incapable of getting over the idea that something he personally finds distasteful could be anything but evil. I felt like I was talking to a wall. So your idea may have some merit.

It really is too bad, he's a really nice guy outside of being a total bigot in that regard, I wish I could talk some sense into him. That said, I've known him since freshmen year and he seems less convicted in his beliefs every year he's around me, last year he even admitted to being agnostic about the existence of his deity. Perhaps next year I'll be able to make him see reason.

[Strife26]

What I've never understood is why people would think it's a "choice" when seriously, who would "choose" hatred and bigotry over a normal life?

Because the people who think that believe that non-heterosexuals are people who love to live in sin against God and the only lifestyle that is difficult or persecuted is their particular brand of True Christians™.

I've got to call you out on that, MSH. Don't be bigoted against Christians, it hurts just about as much as anything they do, fueling the fires and all.

Also, good God man. Trying to make a religious person "see reason?!" You don't see anything wrong with that?