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[Moogie]

Just checking the latest news from Survivors of Ragnarok today and happened to listen to their menu music clip in the latest blog post. Hear anything familiar?... I'm assuming it's actually the same guy who did the DF music, and not a shameless rip of it. (And forgive me, but I don't actually know who it was who made the DF music. I know it wasn't Toady, though.)

I'm kind of hoping they don't keep that part of the track, to be honest. I mean, it's a melody we all associate with Dwarf Fortress already. But then again, maybe it's just a homage. Or something. I dunno.

[chaoticag]

Pretty sure Toady made the DF music. He took some guitar classes way back when.

[Enzo]

I thought one of the Adams did the DF theme. It came up in an early DFTalk maybe? Maybe I am totally remembering this wrong.

Anyway, they're using an awful lot of the DF theme there to be considered homage, but that's all it is. Albeit perhaps an ill-conceived homage. The description on their homepage says "inspired by Dwarf Fortress". If they thought they were stealing it, there's no way they could expect to get away with it.

[Graven]

Yeah, I'm almost certain the "DF music guy" is Toady himself, and Survivors of Ragnarok say they've been "inspired" by DF at the very top of their page. Stealing a bit of the music isn't the worst thing they could do in this regard.

 And besides, you have to agree it's quite the catchy melody we have here

[Cthulhu]

There's a fine line between "inspired by" and "ripping off" and I'm not sure where lifting several bars directly from the theme song of the game that "inspires" you lies.

I mean maybe if it were the baseline or the rhythm solo in the background maybe it would work as a subtle thing.

In case it isn't apparent, I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about.

[Rex_Nex]

Might want to PM toady about this, if just for a interesting note then anything else. I highly doubt he would do anything about it, but you know, something he should know.

[Dr. Johbson]

Yeah it's no secret where we get a lot of our inspiration from... That beginning was done purposefully to pay homage to Dwarf Fortress.

Considering its 33 seconds long, most of the file is intro, but what little of there is that isn't intro, doesn't sound like anything to be offended at. Catchy tune, too.

Besides, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all that. Everything that wants to be like dwarf fortress is good in my opinion. Wouldn't want only one roguelike out there, although in that case I suppose it should be 'wouldn't want just rogue.' As long as they are different games, everything is good.

[Graven]

I know I'm probably saying this for the thirtieth time, but... we here REALLY need to chill out about other games ripping off Dwarf Fortress. Here, I will even list some reasons :

First - competition is always good, especially in games.
Second - I am yet to see a game that manages to copy even a single element from DF in its entirety
Third - the main draw of DF is the (insane) attention to detail, not a single incredibly unique part of it that has never before been seen and must be protected at all cost, so that we might rise against the oppressors stealing our precious

And fourth and most important - it's getting bloody annoying. Not to mention making the community here seem a little bit... rabid, at times

[Trorbes]

It's pretty much a straight rip from the DF intro music, I kind of wish they had at least masked it a little, but a little homage is nothing to be upset about.

[Kusgnos]

Just clarifying for people who don't know: Tarn is in fact the one who composed and played the DF menu music. He knows flamenco guitar. It's pretty awesome.

EDIT: Oh, and here's the post where he wrote up a part of the tab for people who wanted it.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=651.msg7565#msg7565

[Duke 2.0]

I know I'm probably saying this for the thirtieth time, but... we here REALLY need to chill out about other games ripping off Dwarf Fortress.

I agree with, you, but your points don't really apply here. Using similar gameplay aspects and theme premises do get a lot more of a reaction than they deserve, but this is lifting straight from the home medium.

 I always wondered just how far musicians can go with being inspired by other artists. I know there are a lot of references in the Homestuck albums, so there must be some leeway to how much music can be copied before it's a ripoff.

 I suppose it depends on how much the music is gonna be used and how much money is made off of the product.

[Biag]

As a musician, I would be extremely uncomfortable with this. It's exactly the same chord progression and most of the same notes. They didn't even put it in a different key.

Of course, it doesn't matter what I would be comfortable with, because I'm not Tarn.

[Capntastic]

It's all well and good to discuss legality of using Toady's music without permission but, as with most things of this sort, even if it's legal to use a 20 second sample or whatever, it doesn't make it not a complete dick move.  Especially when you're using that work to make a game 'inspired' by the thing you're borrowing from, and competing with on some level.

Anyways, I sent Toady a link to this thread, and also sent a message to the game company asking them what's up with lifting music from DF.

[Vherid]

This is what one of their guys said:

"Yeah it's no secret where we get a lot of our inspiration from... That beginning was done purposefully to pay homage to Dwarf Fortress."

Which is exactly what I thought it was when I listened to it, a homage.

[Capntastic]

Well you're wrong, because there's a definite difference to doing something stylistically, rhythmically, and thematically similar to another thing without copying it.   What they did was take the laziest route of simply copying the song (the one someone else made, the one people who are fans of the genre will recognize to a degree) and then appending some boring stuff after it (that no one cares about), and labeling it an 'homage'.

To make myself perfectly clear, here's a good example of homage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvce39OW8tY  Far Beyond the Sun by Yngwie Malmsteen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY967oRzntE The Ordeal Becomes Great, from Ys 4.

Note how it's very similar in many parts, even long stretches, but they are certainly different songs.  This is a vastly different creature than taking 20 seconds of an existing song and then adding some other stuff to the end.