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[Jopax]

And even if they can't take him mid or bot or even top, you know someone is going to take Sol into the jungle. And suck. Tho to be fair, mid and bot were equally shit :I

[frostshotgg]

Jungle AS is actually something I want to try at some point. That may legitimately wind up being where he's strongest. It turns out being a mage with passive aoe damage like that makes you really damn good at killing things.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, in that context he's basically Karthus with a manaless E. And then he has 60-40s Nocturne Ult/Bard Tunnel hybrid for ganking, super-long-ranged stun for ganking, and mobi boots in his kit.

I'm honestly surprised there are people thinking that he's intended for a primary position that isn't the jungle, it's about as obvious here as it was for Kindred or Rek'Sai, what with his entire kit being built for fast clears, ganking, and rapid movement around the map.

I can't wait to see people start pulling off fancy ganks where they zoom in while the stun is en-route. If it's launched from the fog you can get it really damn big without being noticed and then time your engage to coincide with it.

[frostshotgg]

Keep in mind Kindred is a pretty isolated case of being "designed for a position". There's a couple other basically custom built junglers (Skarner, Nocturne, Nunu, Rengar, Kha'Zix off the top of my head) and Mordekaiser and that's about all I can think of. Everybody else was built with a kit and then left to find a position on their own, plus most of the supports if you count that as a position.

Basically every champ sees some amount of jungle play when they come out because you can make damn near anybody clear it. AS was designed as a mid range mage with a neat theme of passive ring of death in mind and that's it.

[Jopax]

Thing is, I don't think his passive alone is enough. Sure it's free aoe, but keep in mind it's free aoe and that means that it won't really be as good as any of the stuff you don't have permanently on for no cost. And  the kit might be there, but again, I'm not sure it's really enough unless we see some numbers moved around.

I think the main kicker is his W moving the balls outwards meaning you can't use that to clear camps effectively since they'll almost always be in melee range.

[Arcvasti]

Jungle AS is actually something I want to try at some point. That may legitimately wind up being where he's strongest. It turns out being a mage with passive aoe damage like that makes you really damn good at killing things.

The AS I had was jungle. Did pretty well, all things considered. The ganks were pretty nice, with the Q + E making a good engage and W being a nice finisher for when the enemy limps away.

[Flying Dice]

1. Toggle on when approaching the camp.
2. Q before your stars are in range.
3. Toggle off when the camp leaves stun and aggros.

Even at rank 1 that's enough to basically insta-clear all minis. With blue, he can stun every 9 seconds (meaning only 8s of uptime for whatever camp he's on at rank 1).

Remember, his stars at level 1, with W toggled off do 30 + 18% AP damage. Q at rank 1 does 70 + 65% AP. With W active, stars do 60 + 27% AP. Assume 20 AP at match start, that's a reasonable approximation of runes & masteries. So Q + two hits from active stars alone is ~214 damage. That's enough that the next (~34 damage) hit from the deactivated stars will kill the baby raptors and put all other minis at <50%. At level 2. Passively, while you AA the main monster of the camp. Then, about 5 seconds later, you get your stun back and finish off the camp.

That's damned good early clearing for a mage jungler. Once you have a few levels your damage and E passive means that you're practically going to be doing drivebys instead of stopping to clear.

[Andmore]

Why would Jhin be played in toplane?

[Flying Dice]

To troll.

[frostshotgg]

AS and Liss both fall into the category of "Mid-range mages who you play for fun because competitively there's objectively one best choice for a given match and it's usually 'Play Orianna instead'".

[frostshotgg]

Why would Jhin be played in toplane?

Having just played a match against a top Jhin, because his team's top laner got hard countered and he was going mid, so it seemed like a good idea at the time to lane swap. I then proceeded to absolutely destroy him and their whole team because Quinn is still the strongest top laner in the game, totally uncontested with Fiora nerfed a bit. But the thought was there, and I'm sure against Teemo or Kennen he could've stumbled through laning.

[Flying Dice]

Blinding Dart range: 580
Jihn auto range: 550
Jihn Q range: 550

Hoo-boy. Yeah, nope. Not unless the Jihn got lucky with a moronic Teemo that continually walked into his traps. Otherwise, every single time Jihn tries to trade or CS it's going to be Teemo Q + back off, or Q + AA if his grenade is on CD. Maybe if he finessed his grenade super well and got lucky with the bounces. Once Teemo gets a couple more ranks in his Q he basically wins every fight for free--ammunition-reliant ADCs are really vulnerable to that blind because they're already reliant on their initial burst, so if they waste it while blinded they're not going to catch up on damage unless they're super fed.

At least that's my impression.

[frostshotgg]

There's not a whole lot Teemo can do to stop Jhin from farming through. WQ a wave and sit on your ass for 30 seconds while Teemo struggles to deal with 6 unimpeded creeps.

[Flying Dice]

Sounds like a good way to run out of mana early and get forced out of lane, since Jihn doesn't have innate mana recovery and doesn't build MP or regen.

I can see shoving early and all-inning at level 2, but if you fail or don't try you'll quickly run out of mana, and what's going to happen is that the Teemo will take an aggressive stance and either AA you whenever you CS or win trades with Q.

It's like spamming Spirit Fire early as Nasus: yeah, you'll clear waves and push the enemy laner while you have mana, but as soon as you're OOM you're going to get put behind.

[frostshotgg]

Well obviously your QW isn't clearing waves before level 5, maybe 7, so you'd just be playing defensively until then, but you say getting forced out of lane like that's actually an issue against Teemo. Clear a wave or two, then back, and at best the Teemo has struggled valiantly to push into your tower and you didn't miss any cs, and at worst he froze on his tower and you come back and kill the tower.

How does a Teemo actually punish you for the age old strat of pushing the wave and backing?