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[Tyg13]

The fundamental point I was trying to make there, is that there is no other strategy that is actually "better" than the meta in all circumstances. The meta is a sort-of catch-all solution to a problem. It gives you a solid plan, good team comp, and works in 90% of all situations as the most efficient strategy. There will always be specific team comps that pros can run to counter specific weaknesses a certain team comp has. You'll never find a specific strategy that counters the meta in all circumstances. If there was one, everyone would be using it.

And even still, if there really was a strategy that "countered" the meta, you'd never be able to get your team to follow it outside of queuing with your friends. The meta is what everyone knows how to play, and it's the safest way to ensure your team will be strong enough to beat the enemy.

Oh, and mild deviations from the meta are not a new meta. They're just that, mild deviations from the meta. A new meta requires a completely different strategy, one that is fundamentally sound in another way, but different.

Like how they used to run AD carry mid so it would get solo exp and gold, with an AP top for the solo because they have CC and can survive better than an AD carry top. Then you'd run bruisers bot lane because bot lane used to get ganked hard 24/7. It was pretty good, but left a squishy AP carry in a gankable side lane, and left an AD carry all alone to be ganked willy nilly. If you tried to run that today, it'd get crushed by the current meta. That's actually how the current meta supplanted the old one, people started running this meta against the old one and it was simply better. Bruisers can soak up AP damage and crush their squishiness with help from their jungler. The AP carry mid easily crushes the weak early game of the AD carry, and the AD Carry + Support bot can always wait it out, or get ganks from the jungler to help them out.

Double bruiser bot is actually a pretty good strat against specific comps, like Ezreal + Sona bot. But it's only useful against certain comps. You try and run that against a strong bot lane, like Draven + Leona and you'll find that Draven has too much poke and Leona's got too much tank to be pushed around. It's good to catch your enemies off-guard, but it only works when you have allies who understand what you're trying to do and how to fully utilize that potential. You also have to know the enemy's team comp. So again, only possible in 5 man premade draft or ranked. It's also not very good late-game, unless you put someone like Jax + Pantheon bot, in which case Jax will just scale into a late-game beast like he always does.

I'd like to clarify, I'm not trying to say that the meta is bad, or good. I really like experimentation, because it rewards clever thinking and it's arguably better than the stale, standard meta. But I hate people who rant and rave about the current meta without even acknowledging in any way that the meta is the safest way to play, that there's a reason people started playing this meta. If you come up with something better than the current meta, that counters it in 90% of situations, then please tell me it. I'd love to use it. Until then, just stop complaining.

[Shadowlord]

What's this AP and AD y'all keep mentioning?

[Techhead]

One of (in my opinion) best things to do if you hate the meta is the kill-lane. Put two guys with high synergy next to eachother in botlane. Stuff like Yorick/Zilean. Suicide bomber ghouls? Yes!

[Jopax]

So, last two days have been a fucking horror as far as LoL is concerned. Out of ten games I have lost 7. Do you guys want to know the reasons behind 6 out of those 7 losses?

Assholes.

Yes, assholes, pricks who do not care about anything but themselves. Oh what's that, you called mid? No matter I'll a prick and ruin the game for four other people by not chaning my mind but instalocking a mid too. Oh what's that, you called adc? No matter, lemme just instalock this Ashe so I can suck at last hitting and generally be a burden to the team.

And this shit happened every, single, god damned time. I frankly don't know why I bother upholding that dibs and teamwork shit anymore, nobody else does, or atleast nobody cares that people are self centered pricks who play just to fuck with their teams.

Edit: And the trend fucking continues, this time Shen wants to support but is forced out of it by AP Nidalee, now Shen has to jungle with support runes and masteries while bot feeds the shit out of the other side. By 20 minutes the score is 4/20

Edit2:And another one...

I think I'm going to give LoL a break.

[palsch]

What's this AP and AD y'all keep mentioning?

Ability Power
Attack Damage

As a general rule, AP = magic damage, AD = physical damage. How exactly the stats relate to the damage types is a little more complicated.

In terms of champions;

AP champs tend to have strong spells/abilities where the damage scales heavily with their AP stat. This gives them very strong burst damage (as a rule, plenty of variation) when they get high levels and lots of gold to build plenty of good items.

AD champions deal lots of damage through autoattacking. This requires lots of gold to stack good AD and other useful items. Usually these are regarded late game 'carries', in that they will need more help early but will deal the most damage late game. An ADC is an AD Carry. AP champions may also be regarded as carries. Some (and quite a few of the current strongest/popular) AD champions are more AD casters, where a substantial chunk of damage comes from their abilities, but they still scale primarily with attack damage.

As a rule you want at least one good AP and one good AD champion

[Sirian]

I think it's stupid how instalocking is seen as ban-worthy, yet calling dibs and never accepting to play something else is apparently ok. That and the "premade bot" who fails most of the time because most of the time one of those two is vastly less competent than the other, and more often than not, he's the one playing adc.

[Graven]

Tyg, bro, I'm not going to reply to your post since you've obviously made your mind. I'll just say that for the great, GREAT majority of LoL players the meta is A) set in stone; B) Infallible and C) Of literally no consequence at all.

Everyone who is not playing at a pro level can freely ignore the meta and be safe in the knowledge that as long as he is mechanically and strategically competent, he'll do well. Bruisers mid? Double AP bot? Kill-lanes? AD carry jungle? All work, as long as the players can make it work.

I'll repeat myself - the meta is safe for the bad players and familiar to the mediocre and good ones. That's all it is. It's not the best, it's not the most fun, it's not the most effective.

In other news, I'm starting to realise why I was so glad I stopped playing. In SR if you're good enough you can carry. In Dominion if you're good enough you can watch, seething with impotent rage, as your team gleefully wanders off to be picked 1 by 1.

[Jopax]

I think it's stupid how instalocking is seen as ban-worthy, yet calling dibs and never accepting to play something else is apparently ok. That and the "premade bot" who fails most of the time because most of the time one of those two is vastly less competent than the other, and more often than not, he's the one playing adc.

How else are you supposed to give people roles then? Instalocking is seen as bad is it doesn't give a single chance to change it back. Calling a role and picking a champ gives others a chance to react and perhaps give a counter claim or something since you don't lock in immedately.

[IronyOwl]

The problem with that entire post is that it's purely dogmatic garbage and the fact you're so certain of it is exactly why everybody complains about the meta. The fact of the matter is, if you were to watch a ton of higher level games, especially Asian teams, the teams have no qualms breaking the meta and games are much more interesting for it. However, everybody who doesn't have a great understanding of game mechanics spews exactly that same dogma, and refuse to do something that will work because of it.

Then explain why. Calling it bad and then cherry-picking anecdotes to counter it doesn't prove anything.

Tyg, bro, I'm not going to reply to your post since you've obviously made your mind. I'll just say that for the great, GREAT majority of LoL players the meta is A) set in stone; B) Infallible and C) Of literally no consequence at all.

Everyone who is not playing at a pro level can freely ignore the meta and be safe in the knowledge that as long as he is mechanically and strategically competent, he'll do well.

This first part isn't true, at least to a point, or else the meta wouldn't exist at all past a certain level of play (plus, this does nothing to explain why the meta would be good for bad players but meaningless for competent ones). If by "the meta is easy, not good" you mean "the meta is best as a generalized template, but there are several possible teamcomps that can match or exceed it," you're in agreement with Tyg- best in 90% of situations, there are better options on occasion.

Otherwise, what are you saying, exactly? Everyone does the meta for no reason because they're lazy, even though fights over who gets what lane or plays what champ are common? Teamcomps don't matter? Lane positions don't matter? I don't follow what the logic of "meta doesn't matter and Tyg is horribly wrong and dogmatic" is supposed to imply.

Bruisers mid? Double AP bot? Kill-lanes? AD carry jungle? All work, as long as the players can make it work.

This second part means literally nothing. 1v5 can work if the players make it work. That doesn't mean 5v5 isn't "better" by some definitions.

I'll repeat myself - the meta is safe for the bad players and familiar to the mediocre and good ones. That's all it is. It's not the best, it's not the most fun, it's not the most effective.

Then why does it exist? Are you saying it's just training wheels that get left on at higher (ie competent) levels out of habit, even when there's better, more enjoyable, more effective alternatives readily available?

I think it's stupid how instalocking is seen as ban-worthy, yet calling dibs and never accepting to play something else is apparently ok. That and the "premade bot" who fails most of the time because most of the time one of those two is vastly less competent than the other, and more often than not, he's the one playing adc.

How else are you supposed to give people roles then? Instalocking is seen as bad is it doesn't give a single chance to change it back. Calling a role and picking a champ gives others a chance to react and perhaps give a counter claim or something since you don't lock in immedately.

Plus, calling a lane is definitive. There are some champs that might go anywhere, so just locking it in doesn't necessarily tell anyone what's taken. Last thing you want is an entire mid team because everyone plus Fizz thought Fiddles was jungle, Teemo was top, Ez was bot, and Ryze was too slow to beat Fizz but too fast to realize he'd already locked in.

And sure, you could try to make that work, but everyone's already operating under the assumption that the way to play is to brute-force your decisions in and that written communication doesn't particularly do anything.

[webadict]

So, last two days have been a fucking horror as far as LoL is concerned. Out of ten games I have lost 7. Do you guys want to know the reasons behind 6 out of those 7 losses?

Assholes.

Yes, assholes, pricks who do not care about anything but themselves. Oh what's that, you called mid? No matter I'll a prick and ruin the game for four other people by not chaning my mind but instalocking a mid too. Oh what's that, you called adc? No matter, lemme just instalock this Ashe so I can suck at last hitting and generally be a burden to the team.

And this shit happened every, single, god damned time. I frankly don't know why I bother upholding that dibs and teamwork shit anymore, nobody else does, or atleast nobody cares that people are self centered pricks who play just to fuck with their teams.

Edit: And the trend fucking continues, this time Shen wants to support but is forced out of it by AP Nidalee, now Shen has to jungle with support runes and masteries while bot feeds the shit out of the other side. By 20 minutes the score is 4/20

Edit2:And another one...

I think I'm going to give LoL a break.

?

Why does anyone NEED to play any particular role?

[Angle]

So, last two days have been a fucking horror as far as LoL is concerned. Out of ten games I have lost 7. Do you guys want to know the reasons behind 6 out of those 7 losses?

Assholes.

Yes, assholes, pricks who do not care about anything but themselves. Oh what's that, you called mid? No matter I'll a prick and ruin the game for four other people by not chaning my mind but instalocking a mid too. Oh what's that, you called adc? No matter, lemme just instalock this Ashe so I can suck at last hitting and generally be a burden to the team.

And this shit happened every, single, god damned time. I frankly don't know why I bother upholding that dibs and teamwork shit anymore, nobody else does, or atleast nobody cares that people are self centered pricks who play just to fuck with their teams.

Edit: And the trend fucking continues, this time Shen wants to support but is forced out of it by AP Nidalee, now Shen has to jungle with support runes and masteries while bot feeds the shit out of the other side. By 20 minutes the score is 4/20

Edit2:And another one...

I think I'm going to give LoL a break.

Premades, man. My name on league is Ribbonwing, send me an invite and we can play sometime.

[Graven]

The problem with that entire post is that it's purely dogmatic garbage and the fact you're so certain of it is exactly why everybody complains about the meta. The fact of the matter is, if you were to watch a ton of higher level games, especially Asian teams, the teams have no qualms breaking the meta and games are much more interesting for it. However, everybody who doesn't have a great understanding of game mechanics spews exactly that same dogma, and refuse to do something that will work because of it.

Then explain why. Calling it bad and then cherry-picking anecdotes to counter it doesn't prove anything.

Tyg, bro, I'm not going to reply to your post since you've obviously made your mind. I'll just say that for the great, GREAT majority of LoL players the meta is A) set in stone; B) Infallible and C) Of literally no consequence at all.

Everyone who is not playing at a pro level can freely ignore the meta and be safe in the knowledge that as long as he is mechanically and strategically competent, he'll do well.

This first part isn't true, at least to a point, or else the meta wouldn't exist at all past a certain level of play (plus, this does nothing to explain why the meta would be good for bad players but meaningless for competent ones). If by "the meta is easy, not good" you mean "the meta is best as a generalized template, but there are several possible teamcomps that can match or exceed it," you're in agreement with Tyg- best in 90% of situations, there are better options on occasion.

Otherwise, what are you saying, exactly? Everyone does the meta for no reason because they're lazy, even though fights over who gets what lane or plays what champ are common? Teamcomps don't matter? Lane positions don't matter? I don't follow what the logic of "meta doesn't matter and Tyg is horribly wrong and dogmatic" is supposed to imply.

Bruisers mid? Double AP bot? Kill-lanes? AD carry jungle? All work, as long as the players can make it work.

This second part means literally nothing. 1v5 can work if the players make it work. That doesn't mean 5v5 isn't "better" by some definitions.

I'll repeat myself - the meta is safe for the bad players and familiar to the mediocre and good ones. That's all it is. It's not the best, it's not the most fun, it's not the most effective.

Then why does it exist? Are you saying it's just training wheels that get left on at higher (ie competent) levels out of habit, even when there's better, more enjoyable, more effective alternatives readily available?

I think it's stupid how instalocking is seen as ban-worthy, yet calling dibs and never accepting to play something else is apparently ok. That and the "premade bot" who fails most of the time because most of the time one of those two is vastly less competent than the other, and more often than not, he's the one playing adc.

How else are you supposed to give people roles then? Instalocking is seen as bad is it doesn't give a single chance to change it back. Calling a role and picking a champ gives others a chance to react and perhaps give a counter claim or something since you don't lock in immedately.

Plus, calling a lane is definitive. There are some champs that might go anywhere, so just locking it in doesn't necessarily tell anyone what's taken. Last thing you want is an entire mid team because everyone plus Fizz thought Fiddles was jungle, Teemo was top, Ez was bot, and Ryze was too slow to beat Fizz but too fast to realize he'd already locked in.

And sure, you could try to make that work, but everyone's already operating under the assumption that the way to play is to brute-force your decisions in and that written communication doesn't particularly do anything.

I'm not sure why people keep making the same exact argument and expect to be responded to in a different way. Easy is not best, because if it was, teams would never deviate. Teams deviate constantly, so it is not. Noone cares about soloqueue and the meta thereof. End of story. Everything else you typed is meaningless.

Also it seems to me some people don't actually understand what the meta is. The metagame is the general framework flowing over the individual games and uniting them in some way. Professional teams create the meta, but they aren't bound by it, since they know exactly how to break it and when. Riot are attempting to enact the meta by giving champions strict roles and reworking abilities, for example removing the AP scaling from supports is often seen as a meta-enforcing move, but this is secondary to pro play.

Once again, in soloqueue none of this matters since the teamwork required to make the most of ANY game is not there. That's why the meta is safest - because it requires the least amount of teamwork. Everyone knows their role and can smash his fists on the keyboard feebly trying to do the best of it. It is not "the best" because an organised team can work out direct counterplay to the meta and coordinate well enough to play out the different tactical situations.

This is my last post on the topic because I'm getting tired repeating and hearing arguments from more than a year ago.

[Virex]

So, it turns out that using Barrier on Olaf is pretty awesome. I wonder if there are other champs that scale of missing HP that could use it, Karma perhaps?

[frostshotgg]

So, it turns out that using Barrier on Olaf is pretty awesome. I wonder if there are other champs that scale of missing HP that could use it, Karma perhaps?

Yep, Poppy and Karma.

[Jar of Jam]

Another week of EU LCS has started with Copenhagen Wolves against Fnatic Gaming - http://www.twitch.tv/riotgames/new