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More tech tree!

36 (26.1%)

More ritual tree!

8 (5.8%)

More lore!

12 (8.7%)

More mythical weapons/armor!

22 (15.9%)

Plagues!

28 (20.3%)

More secrets!

21 (15.2%)

More mechanical constructs!

11 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 137

[Alkhemia]

TTF bug toady has to fix it

[Stirk]

Is it just me, or is getting the Wave breakers really easy once you get everything you need to make one?

My fortress was just invaded full-scale by the goblins, with their demon leader and everything. My well-equipped military I sent to destroy it, fighting long and hard but ended up losing. All looked hopeless as they ran toward the body of my fort...

And got slaughtered. On top of the traps, I had like twenty civilian wavebreakers from the setting it on auto I mentioned earlier. They ended up able to fight off the rest of the siege, beating it, with much fewer casualties as I had assumed. So basically I am fine, with the exception of all the tantrums and the bodies I have to bury, it went a lot easier than I thought it was.

[SalmonGod]

I'm  kind of curious about making an underwater fort with wavebreakers.

[Imp]

Is it just me, or is getting the Wave breakers really easy once you get everything you need to make one?
.... I had like twenty civilian wavebreakers from the setting it on auto ....

I suspect, since there -are- quite a few gods involved, that Narhiril may have a few surprises (some surely unfortunate) for us one day, should the religeous composition of our fortress tip to far in certain directions.

Did you allow 90% of your fortress to become one god's chosen ones?  Perhaps certain other gods might grow offended from feeling neglected, or become 'distant' as they are not properly focused on by your dwarves.  (Perhaps the Earth god might withdraw his bounty, and you find that many of your dug out ores and worked metals have become a simple stone type, or even not yet dug metal and gem veins could turn to basic stone, or Armok send some messengers to remind your fortress that he should be the one given the greatest worship/fear)  Maybe the 'over-worshipped' god might start taking 'liberties' to show its appreciation at being so deeply beloved (Temanat might start turning wine into water, or randomly flooding places that you really dont want to see get wet, like tiles containing masterwork engravings).

Perhaps, if your balance goes awry, prayers and rituals to the under-represented gods might cease to work or tend to backfire in much more frequent and horrible ways.

[Stirk]

I'm  kind of curious about making an underwater fort with wavebreakers.

I was also thinking about that, maybe with just an air lock with a few doors and the temple to allow migrants to assimilate. Make it next to an ocean, flood every place but the three-tile walkway for caravans, and fill that with traps and you would have amazing defenses...

Perhaps, if your balance goes awry, prayers and rituals to the under-represented gods might cease to work or tend to backfire in much more frequent and horrible ways.

That would be an interesting way to keep the balance of power, and would keep you from making all of your dwarves invincible steel-skinned Armok worshipers with other amazing powers and keeping anything from killing you. I am not sure how that would be implemented, however...

[Imp]

I'm  kind of curious about making an underwater fort with wavebreakers.

I was also thinking about that, maybe with just an air lock with a few doors and the temple to allow migrants to assimilate. Make it next to an ocean, flood every place but the three-tile walkway for caravans, and fill that with traps and you would have amazing defenses...

We as players probably don't care about this as much as dwarves would, but any newborns in this fort would almost certainly die of drowning.

I know that Emberlight females are sterile, to avoid unfortunate newborns.  Far as I know, female wavebreakers can still give birth, and the babies are born as normal dwarves.

Has anyone tested yet if a Wavebreaker mother would prioritize a job of rushing her newest born to the temple for transformation, or if an already-Wavebreaker mother would even notice that job, as she herself does not need the transformation?

Testing this is nearly impossible for me with my limited time these days - I've not gotten my new fort past spring yet, there's just no time for me to play 

[Man of Paper]

It balances itself out either way. If you use a variety of the "special forces" dwarves you can do a little bit of everything. If you specify, however, you specialize greatly in one area while attaining their critical weakness. For instance, if you use all emberlights, you'll be murderous against sieges (I haven't gotten any yet, but it seems like they're good for crowd control), but your environment, as well as any dwarves you don't change quickly, is going to get burnt a lot.

[Stirk]

We as players probably don't care about this as much as dwarves would, but any newborns in this fort would almost certainly die of drowning.

I know that Emberlight females are sterile, to avoid unfortunate newborns.  Far as I know, female wavebreakers can still give birth, and the babies are born as normal dwarves.

Ah the children! Think of the children!

Well I am about to try it... Perhaps if you make a meeting area in the middle of the ocean water proof with strategic use of pumps, and you could probably place a well there, with other things like another temple to baptize the newborns? That would probably lower child fatality rates significantly.

Has anyone tested yet if a Wavebreaker mother would prioritize a job of rushing her newest born to the temple for transformation, or if an already-Wavebreaker mother would even notice that job, as she herself does not need the transformation?

I did the whole set to repeat thing, and they still continue even after they have already transformed. It gets annoying when you set it on repeat, but it is easy to walk around, and allows for more baby wave breakers.

It balances itself out either way. If you use a variety of the "special forces" dwarves you can do a little bit of everything. If you specify, however, you specialize greatly in one area while attaining their critical weakness. For instance, if you use all emberlights, you'll be murderous against sieges (I haven't gotten any yet, but it seems like they're good for crowd control), but your environment, as well as any dwarves you don't change quickly, is going to get burnt a lot.

Forgot about you.

But the emberlight is the only one with such a weakness, if you can call being to powerful a weakness. Wavebreakers don't need extra regents to make one you have the basics to make one, so once you make one you can make unlimited amounts. They have a ton of bonuses, but no negatives. Or the corpse raisers that are planned. They don't sound like they have any weakness. So basically you an have a fortress made entirely of wavebreakers with no ill effect, same for emberlight if you don't mind your grass being burned.

[Meph]

Underwater pathfinding is broken, they only enter deep water to fight as far as I know. Would be glad to be corrected on this.

[Stirk]

Underwater pathfinding is broken, they only enter deep water to fight as far as I know. Would be glad to be corrected on this.

Could have told me that before I spent the last two ours starting an underwater fort...

[narhiril]

Ok, lots of stuff to address and only a little bit of time to address it...

This gave me an idea... would it be possible to use captured enemies as medical training subjects?

Can't be done.  Sorry.

Using the ASCII portion of the raws only download, I get these errors:

Code: [Select]

Interaction Token not recognized : CLOAK
*** Error(s) finalizing the interaction REZ_SECRET_LFR
Error Initializing Text: raw/objects/text/secret_rez_lfr.txt
The first may not actually be from LFR, I need to check my personal mod to make sure. But it certainly doesn't look like you've included a secret_rez_lfr of any kind.

That file is erroneously missing from the raw-only download.  It's a very minor issue, but thank you for bringing it to my attention.

How powerful are dragon flames now? Just want to check from an old timer on this before charging them with emberlights and wavebreakers. 

To combat this baby thing, I tend to set the ratios in the creature standards for there to be slightly more males (females at 700 - 900, males at 1000).

Also, on a side note, i notice from your profile picture - Kingdom of Loathing?

Narhiril, are you currently working on the rituals or the mechanicals? I ask merely for information.

Emberlights and wavebreakers are immune to dragonfire.  Also, it isn't specified in the documentation, but the transformation to wavebreakers sterilizes females just like the emberlight one.

Right now, I'm working on tweaks and balances to the ritual tree.

It balances itself out either way. If you use a variety of the "special forces" dwarves you can do a little bit of everything. If you specify, however, you specialize greatly in one area while attaining their critical weakness. For instance, if you use all emberlights, you'll be murderous against sieges (I haven't gotten any yet, but it seems like they're good for crowd control), but your environment, as well as any dwarves you don't change quickly, is going to get burnt a lot.

The advantages and disadvantages are going to get more obvious in the near future.  I actually don't consider the wavebreaker transformation quite balanced yet, so I might be modifying that in the near future.  The most obvious example of a disadvantage that I can think of is that wavebreakers and emberlights are unable to be healed by paragons, but since I haven't actually released paragons yet, that's kind of a moot point. 

The wavebreaker transformation will probably see some additional reagents added to it in the next update.  For future, more powerful ritual units, there is going to be a substantial risk (as Imp has begun exploring) to attempting to transform a dwarf in the form of uncertainty as to what they're going to transform into.  More on that later.

[Pan]

The wavebreaker transformation will probably see some additional reagents added to it in the next update.  For future, more powerful ritual units, there is going to be a substantial risk (as Imp has begun exploring) to attempting to transform a dwarf in the form of uncertainty as to what they're going to transform into.  More on that later.

My current fortress is still young, but I want to know how expensive are wavebreakers and emberlights to transform. I mean, to make a divine being, it's gotta be pretty risky and expensive. But from what I hear, it's not quite the case with wavebreakers, from what i hear.

In future, I believe there are several raws I have observed that will transform your dwarves into large rats and demons. Guess it's better not to set those on repeat.

[narhiril]

The wavebreaker transformation will probably see some additional reagents added to it in the next update.  For future, more powerful ritual units, there is going to be a substantial risk (as Imp has begun exploring) to attempting to transform a dwarf in the form of uncertainty as to what they're going to transform into.  More on that later.

My current fortress is still young, but I want to know how expensive are wavebreakers and emberlights to transform. I mean, to make a divine being, it's gotta be pretty risky and expensive. But from what I hear, it's not quite the case with wavebreakers, from what i hear.

In future, I believe there are several raws I have observed that will transform your dwarves into large rats and demons. Guess it's better not to set those on repeat.

Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses...  I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.

[Imp]

Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses...  I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.

I sure hope there's also going to be an alternate way to make it really, really safe, though probably rediculously more expensive attempt at transformation.  Some of us like our transformed dwarves quick and dirty, others prize every one of the buggers, wrap each one in cotton wool, and really prefer that each stays among the living , regardless of cost!

[Pan]

Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses...  I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.

Uh... heh, good to know! Oh golly gosh, the poll is sure uh.. favoring the other tech tree at the moment. Heh. Who would have guessed people preferred the safer technol- *cue alchemy lab exploding* Well.. fuck.

But hey, what are your next ideas for the mechanical tech tree? Golems and?

Also, how powerful are corrosive zingers?

Just got a historical migrant emberlight. I sent her, after backing up the save, against a tribe of blowgunner cavefish men with nothing but a shield. It was a massacre. Imagine if they were armored and armed.  Also, the smoke is fricking annoying because you cannot see shit through it - so i missed out half the battle. Now some questions - can emberlights shoot flames through fortifications? Tested this. They cannot shoot through battlements, but wavebreakers can. They are also not immune to magma, altho it takes some time to kill them.

Emberlights are a mystery... How shall I apply them without invoking their friendly fire abilities? I cannot send them with normal soldiers, only waverbreakers. They cannot shoot without fortifications... I know! I'll make an open, fortificationless area with a raisable bridge. When goblins and voidwalkers pass by, I open the bridge and let the emberlights shoot and start a bush fire. Then before archers can return much fire, I close the bridge. Brilliant!  Will need to be careful not to retract the bridge and crush the dwarf though...